With today’s heavy defeat in what was really a must win game, and only 3 wins from 13, I guess it’s time for the club to start planning for the middle 8s.

The fact that more teams than usual are having really bad seasons and that we’ve gone close 2 or 3 times has kept some vestiges of hope for better alive into May. But we realistically, we don’t have enough points on the board, or the quality, strike or power to add that many more.

So how much do we ‘manage the squad’ and ‘give youngsters opportunities’, and how much do we try to secure four home games and build some confidence?

The 8s themselves will be challenging, with Toronto, for example pushing hard for promotion. If we do go down, the £500k parachute payment will give a bit more breathing space (if multiple SL teams go down, do they all get it?), but I think there’d need to some serious thought put in to what the club wants to be.

What we should ask are we that bad if we are why and has any one got the answer if so please tell us fans

Time for the wizard to go and bring in someone else? Just listened to his blunderside interview and he was harping on about a disallowed first half try and how much difference it would have made if it had been given. Sounds like he's lost the plot

I can't fathom our team selection today I appreciate we are down on troops but we had a centre on the wing a wing on the bench and a 2nd row in the centres

I think after 13 rounds, the league table is a fair reflection, give or take. We’re missing a few, but with the exceptions of Lunt and Carney, and maybe Heffernan, we can still cover steady-away SL squad players with other steady-away SL squad players.

The club lost its way a bit after Morgan left. The drift accelerated in 2016. We bounced back well in 2017, and huge credit to everyone involved. But we must look like an accident-prone organisation to outsiders. Also the clean slate that gave us was in an empty-shelf recruitment market. Cas must currently provide a fairly attractive career option, but they signed James Green and Mitch Clark to boost their front row options.

Our benefactors still deserve huge credit, but it is increasingly for resilience rather than striking signs of drive and ambition.

I’m not sure what Peacock’s role is now. He seems like the sort of guy who, faced with a 15 foot high brick wall, would try to run through it. Even if it was only 15 feet wide. That’s harsh, and I respect the fact that he offered his resignation after we lost the MPG, and i’m sure he contributed in 2017. But I can’t help feeling that his strategising will be based on SL conventional wisdom. You learn more from failure than success though, so we’ve probably been good for him!

Sheens knows what he’s doing, but you can’t make bricks without straw. The most baffling thing there is that he identified the need for more strength and size after Wire in last year’s middle 8s, but by the new year we were going ‘mobile’ yet again. I know quality is thin on the ground, but that was a surprising failure. I see the logic of getting more minutes from him, as our biggest forward, and he’s gone pretty well, but we seemingly couldn’t wait to get Masoe on the lettuce and skimmed milk.

And breath...

The fact that you’re suggesting it reinforces, my feeling that should be a ‘no’. Nobody else will get us 8th anyway. I’ll largely judge him on the 8s - if we stay up he’s done his job for this year.

Where I will admit, through gritted teeth, that you were right a while back is in us becoming the archetype of a perennial middle-8s team, unable to escape the cycle of shizzle.

Wakefield have come a long way since winning their MPG in 2015, so it is possible. I just don’t you can do it with gradualism. Or maybe the difference is more that they won that MPG and we lost ours. Credit to Carter and Chester though.

Said the same when I saw the team sheet. Moss would have finished both those opportunities that fell to Salter before h/t yet he sat on the bench for an hour.

Having been at today's walk over. I think we could struggle in the 8's. From strange team selections, to changing our tatics of what was working (getting it wide), to running it up the middle 1 man, to a lack of heart and fight, to our big name players (hi Danny you going to turn up for us sometime this season) just not performing. We looked like a team going down.

Personally I'd look at giving some of our youngsters a chance ( Dagger fb, Moss wing, Quinlin hb). They can't do any worse than what we're producing know.
I don't know what we do in training as we make the same mistakes week in week out.

The only thing we can do is target the games against teams around us to win and hope that by some miracle we get 4 home games. As I don't fancy our chances in 4 away games.

We Need a quality half back ASAP and why did we get rid of docker clay we still have a over seas spot and we need a cover hooker big mistake getting rid of him imo..... we need a few players bringing in and fast McGuire is class but I think he needs a good half back partner can’t rely on him to do everything

There’s a limit of 40 players per season per squad. The wizard has had 38 so far. Not much room now to bring anyone else in.

Agree about ZDC, the games I saw him in last season he looked a good player, who could easily have stepped up to this division. I think Atkins has done well, and would like to see him take/be given more responsibility. Think we need some forwards as we not only losing the collision, but are being dominated there. Would like to see Moss given a run as he has pace which is something we lack.

But to be honest, when you're starting with a SR at , while your defensive on the wing, while a winger with pace is on the bench. And your HB's at hooked, while a hookers at Sh. Your asking for trouble. Square pegs in round holes spring to mind.

Today confirmed that we're in the middle 8s we just need to finish 10th now team selection was a bit strange but I'm sure sheens had his reasons the championship teams don't worry me really we just need to get through this season

I Think really we need some pase on the wings aswell Carney is class but seems to have lost his pase and does not have the acrobatic skills wingers have and shaw is a steady eddy id like to see moss or oaks get a shoot god nows why Salter was on the wing today he looked out of place Quinlan looked good but he does not seem to have lots of pase big rolly polly (Pauli Pauli) caught him and ower half’s ant exactly speedy, pase and power that’s the big thing we need to bring in

*pace*
*knows*

You’re welcome

Was it Wakefield when Jamie was in charge and they gave up and did not sign any body till near the middle 8s but they got threw now look at them or have I got the wrong team .?

Yes it was Michael Carter took over and changed the model of ghe ckub. The team was changed during the season for both financial and playing reasons. It paid off and the club continues to move forwards since the MPG. We have a superb youth set up that will bear fruit in the coming seasons although this is already showing in the first team.

Dagger

Carney
Heffernan
Minns
Oakes

Marsh
Franck

Scruton
Lunt
Jewitt
Donaldson
Lawler
Addy

Subs; Johnson, Cator, Wardill, Williams

This 17 of mostly unavailables didn't play at Wakefield. A bit weak at half back but they'd certainly give the 17 who did play a very good game and if we can ever pick the best 17 from both teams it would be a great help. McGuire, Salter & Blair played jabbed up so probably should have strengthened the unavailable line up still further.

I've never heard of the 40 rule but assuming it exists it certainly gives a very good reason not to blood youngsters. Do that and you are preventing the opportunity to strengthen. Does it include players who haven't played a single Super League game this year like Addy, Johnson, Oakes & Williams? Whatever it seems a potty rule if it exists and for the young players a restraint of trade.

Crossland on sports talk said he’s not worried cause everyone’s working hard. Not sure I’d be as confident.

Insightful

Good job it doesn't concern you then

That is true.....except we had to go get a big name Aussie coach to get us through the middle 8s and MPG.
Webster is a good guy but he made the mistake of saying on Sky that he "might as well" give up and prepare for MPG half way through the season. The whole attitude of the club changed after that and we were heading no where but the MPG before getting anywhere near the 8s.
The majority of that team are still playing with us. We just needed a different 'winning attitude' which Smith got for us and Chester then added skills.