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| Quote ="sandcat20". The Brexit vote was something like 52% to 48% .'"
In Wakefield it was 66% to 34%
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| Quote ="sandcat20"Lets get philosophical for a minute. There are two schools of thought -
1. You elect an MP as your representative to vote as THEIR conscience dictates. This has been the accepted view for a long time but it does mean that the actual electors can feel as they are only considered at election time and then forgotten about.
2. You elect an MP as your representative to vote as YOU dictate. This means that they should check the views of their constituents on each vote - maybe even a mini referendum - which is probably impractical.
Not only that but they have to represent ALL constituents, not just the ones who voted for them. That makes life even more difficult. I'm not saying one way is right and the other wrong but it does show that democracy is messy to say the least. The Brexit vote was something like 52% to 48% so the 48% or nearly half the population have to have their views considered at some stage - unless the losing side gets ignored altogether. Maybe when everything goes online everyone can have a vote on everything (but I reckon it would probably lead to an even bigger mess!).'"
If the vote had gone the other way,trust me,they'd have had no trouble ignoring the losers.
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| Quote ="TrinityIHC"She knows far more about it than your man in the street and is not there to blindly vote for whatever is popular at the time.'"
She's very much on the Progress wing of the Labour Party (Blairite, red Tory, call them what you will) - when I spoke to her before the referendum and expressed my concern that the remain camp weren't addressing the leave-generated hysteria over immigration she said 'There is very little immigration in Wakefield, it's not an issue here'. Very focussed on national issues, locally - we're just here to vote her in.
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| Quote ="wakeyrule"She's very much on the Progress wing of the Labour Party (Blairite, red Tory, call them what you will) - when I spoke to her before the referendum and expressed my concern that the remain camp weren't addressing the leave-generated hysteria over immigration she said 'There is very little immigration in Wakefield, it's not an issue here'. Very focussed on national issues, locally - we're just here to vote her in.'"
It's called ostrich syndrome.
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| Quote ="The Avenger"Bullcrap!'"
Correct!
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| Quote ="The Avenger"Bullcrap!'"
Been to Wakefield today to pick some tickets' up for Sunday's game, there was a chap in the old BHS shop doorway petitioning for the resignation of this woman, I know it wasn't Wildthing cos I know who he is, I'm just wondering if it was you
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| Quote ="The Avenger"Bullcrap!'"
Not really, there are only 3 ways a MP can vote:
With party whip
With constituents
With conscience
Each one has pros and cons, but she is entitled to vote whichever way she feels best serves the district. Only time will tell if she was correct, if brexit is a runaway success and the Tory government maintain levels of current EU investment in Wakefield for example then she'll have been wrong. If it's a disaster then she was right.
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| Quote ="TrinityIHC"Not really, there are only 3 ways a MP can vote:
With party whip
With constituents
With conscience
Each one has pros and cons, but she is entitled to vote whichever way she feels best serves the district. Only time will tell if she was correct, if brexit is a runaway success and the Tory government maintain levels of current EU investment in Wakefield for example then she'll have been wrong. If it's a disaster then she was right.'"
She's voted in by her constituents to represent them
They clearly stated their wishes and she roundly ignored them, preferring instead to indulge in her own beliefs rather than do the job she was elected for.
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| If we are talking about any "run of the mill" issue, the MP should think the issues through and vote in accordance with what they believe to be best for the constituency. As suggested, with their conscience.
If we are talking about a vote based on a referendum, them the MP needs to decide whether to (A) vote with the majority of the nation (the essence of a referendum), (B) with the majority of their constituency, or (C) against their constituency & nation (presumably because they think they know better).
In the event of (C), it is noble (but not a rule), for that MP to declare a bye election, giving the constituents the chance to change, if they wish, their representation.
Don't hold your breath Wakefield - a fat salary and pension are more important than your views and Parliamentary representation.
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| Quote ="The Avenger"She's voted in by her constituents to represent them
They clearly stated their wishes and she roundly ignored them, preferring instead to indulge in her own beliefs rather than do the job she was elected for.'"
It's not her job to go along with constituents wishes, her job is to try and do the best for Wakefield. If she passionately believes that Brexit will cause harm to the city, then she shouldn't vote it through. She is not a delegate.
Simple as that.
The easy option would have been for her to just vote against her conscience and not ruffle any feathers. As it is, she has taken the hard road and made herself a target. Give me a principled politician any day, over one who will do anything for an easy life.
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| Quote ="TrinityIHC"It's not her job to go along with constituents wishes, her job is to try and do the best for Wakefield. If she passionately believes that Brexit will cause harm to the city, then she shouldn't vote it through. She is not a delegate.
Simple as that.
The easy option would have been for her to just vote against her conscience and not ruffle any feathers. As it is, she has taken the hard road and made herself a target. Give me a principled politician any day, over one who will do anything for an easy life.'"
Suspect it won't be her job for much longer. Boundary changes make it more likely that Wakefield will be lost to Labour, especially if she remains.
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| The referendum decision ,in my opinion, should override any personal views. In effect when a referendum is held, it is because it is of such importance that normal parliamentary procedure is suspended.If it goes back to parliament and its for MPs to decide yea or nay as to whether or not the opinion of the people is to be respected you may as well have not had the referendum in the first place.Creagh is a poor loser. I voted remain, but now let's just get on with it.
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| The opinion of 48% of the population is being ignored... I like Ken Clarke's take on affairs. Fair play to Mary for voting with her conscience, she's always supported the EU so at least we don't have an mp who bends which ever way the wind blows. It would be like us ditching Wakefield to go watch Cas just because they've had a few good seasons! I've far more time for people who are loyal to their cause!
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| Quote ="4foxsake"The opinion of 48% of the population is being ignored... I like Ken Clarke's take on affairs. Fair play to Mary for voting with her conscience, she's always supported the EU so at least we don't have an mp who bends which ever way the wind blows. It would be like us ditching Wakefield to go watch Cas just because they've had a few good seasons! I've far more time for people who are loyal to their cause!'"
i wonder if you would have the same view about creagh and Clarke had they voted against something you were passionate about?
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| I'm afraid creagh and a whole host of both Tory and labour MPs are among the political elite of this country who seem to think they know what's best for us all, regardless of whatever opinions we might have.
You can vote in this country.. But you can't vote for change. Unless it's in the form of a referendum.people saw the referendum as a chance to let parliament know exactly how we felt, and that's why we find ourselves where we are today.
But until we get rid of the tories and labour as political forces in this country then nothing much is going to change,and because we run the two party system their both quite happy for things to run along as they are.they certainly don't want proportional representation, as this certainly would bring an end to their reign, as more people would see their votes counting wether they vote ukip or green thus giving them more MPs in parliament.
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| Quote ="Jackie brown"I'm afraid creagh and a whole host of both Tory and labour MPs are among the political elite of this country who seem to think they know what's best for us all, regardless of whatever opinions we might have.
You can vote in this country.. But you can't vote for change. Unless it's in the form of a referendum.people saw the referendum as a chance to let parliament know exactly how we felt, and that's why we find ourselves where we are today.
But until we get rid of the tories and labour as political forces in this country then nothing much is going to change,and because we run the two party system their both quite happy for things to run along as they are.they certainly don't want proportional representation, as this certainly would bring an end to their reign, as more people would see their votes counting wether they vote ukip or green thus giving them more MPs in parliament.'"
Spot on.
You'd think the penny would have dropped after Trump but no they still won't listen you only have to look at that granstanding idiot John Berko to see that.
At this rate we'll have to vote Charles Manson in before these self serving liberals get the point. Nobody wanted Trump and many didn't really want Brexit they just wanted to be heard at last and remind these parasites who pays the bills!
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| That's right, you've shown those pesky politicians!
You've shown them by giving them more power and also made yourself poorer to boot.
"War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength"
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| Quote ="vastman"Spot on.
You'd think the penny would have dropped after Trump but no they still won't listen you only have to look at that granstanding idiot John Berko to see that.
At this rate we'll have to vote Charles Manson in before these self serving liberals get the point. Nobody wanted Trump and many didn't really want Brexit they just wanted to be heard at last and remind these parasites who pays the bills!'"
To be honest nothing will change massively until we have a societal sea change. Automation is coming and will make many, many jobs redundant. What will we do with those who are forced out of the workforce? We can't just sit back calling them scroungers like we treat the unemployed at present.
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| Quote ="Hank Moody"That's right, you've shown those pesky politicians!
You've shown them by giving them more power and also made yourself poorer to boot.
"War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength"'"
Are you a fortune teller by any chance?
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| Quote ="TrinityIHC":1izho0l0To be honest nothing will change massively until we have a societal sea change. Automation is coming and will make many, many jobs redundant. What will we do with those who are forced out of the workforce? We can't just sit back calling them scroungers like we treat the unemployed at present.'" all benefits would be scrapped. the Netherlands have also been trialling the same plan in parts of the country with high unemployment. its the way the world is going.
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| Quote ="KevW60349"Are you a fortune teller by any chance?'"
No.
I work for a leading supermarket chain. Been in several meetings over the last 6 months about how much more the company can absorb the steadily rising costs.
Worse case scenario is your shopping will be 10% more expensive by the end of the year. Further rises if the EU play hardball.
Basic economics, not fortune telling I'm afraid.
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| Quote ="Hank Moody"No.
I work for a leading supermarket chain. Been in several meetings over the last 6 months about how much more the company can absorb the steadily rising costs.
Worse case scenario is your shopping will be 10% more expensive by the end of the year. Further rises if the EU play hardball.
Basic economics, not fortune telling I'm afraid.'"
Considering we have had virtually nil inflation for the last few years and Goverment policy is for a rate of 2% per annum, shopping is just part of the inflation equation. I dont see how the EU can play hardball with us, they have more to lose, after all we buy more from the EU than we sell to the other 27 EU countries. Anyway time will tell and a slight increase in inflation over the 2% target rate to me is a price well paying to get out of the undemocratic EU.
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| And the millions who are already living in or very near poverty?
Are they collateral damage?
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| Quote ="Hank Moody"And the millions who are already living in or very near poverty?
Are they collateral damage?'"
Millions? Depends on what you class as poverty,I grew up in the 50s/60s and have seen what i would term poverty. In a country that millions are trying to get into and succeeding why do you think they are all coming here, the UK one of the most sought after countries in the world,they are not here for the poverty.
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| Quote ="Hank Moody"And the millions who are already living in or very near poverty?
Are they collateral damage?'"
Having being brought up in city centre slums with shared outside toilets, no hot water, a tin bath and mice as room mates I often wonder if the modern day measure of poverty in the UK might be a bit more luxurious. Poverty is measured relative to the general standards of the population. Does it now mean not having money for TV, ale, cigs and a iphone?
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