So if Nadal and/or Djokovic manage to play fabulous tennis, up there with their best, and beat him in the sembo or final (as Djokovic did in Australia) then he's still going to have choked?? Bizarre logic.

Choking to me is failing to produce anything like your best form due to pressure.

Not sure how many times you would say Murray has played in the last four of Grand Slams and not produced something like his best form - it's just not been good enough to beat players who are better than him, not just on that day but on most days.

The point is that they haven't played well, Nadal could turn up tomorrow and play the best tennis of his career, we just don't know. It's pathetic how people say Murray chokes or is shiote when he's playing behind the best two mens players ever imo, Nadal and Federer are unbelievably good players. As Djokovic is class too, you only have look back at last few years Grand Slams to realise how good Nadal and Federer are.

Exactly mate. Even if Murray does go on to beat one or both of them he'll most probably have to endure the "he only won because Nadal and/or Djokovic weren't playing well" jibes.

Its the British way. The bandwagon culture makes things even worse, as people that know nothing about the sport will label a player/team as sh*t because they got beaten just so they can voice their opinion like everyone else.

Sharapova looked good today, both in looks and performance. Handled the Lisicki monster serve with practical ease in all fairness (I dont think Lisicki had one ace) and Bartoli couldnt do much with it her quarter final game.

Kvitova will be a stern test, but I just feel the mental game of Sharapova in this tournament is bang there and she should win. Although Id be keen to back her to win 2-1 in sets after losing the first, she has started slowly in a lot of her games, and Kvitova has done the opposite.

Either way it should be a decent final.

Murray will be judged on his performance. It is not wining or losing that is the issue.

If he loses in 3 sets 6-4, 6-1, 6- 0 i will call him a choker.

If he takes it to tie breaks and 4 or 5 sets and has played well then you can say he has given it his best shot but lost to a better player. We will see tomorrow.

How can you make such bold statements about a match that hasn't been played yet?
What if Murray plays really well but Nadal plays out of this world and beats him in straight sets?
What if Nadal plays average and Murray plays well but Nadal edges it in 5 sets?

Think Novak will win it now.

Backed Nadal to beat Murray today, head ruling heart. Anyone fancying Novak to win I'd wait til after this match (and even longer if Murray wins) Novak is around 11/10 favourite now, but if Nadal wins in decent fashion he will probably be clipped and Novak slightly eased, and if Murray wins then cue total Murraymania and he will be far shorter than he should.

Murray is running Nadal all over the court and totally controlling these rallys. Nadal needs to wake up big time, Murray surely won't get beat here..


I speak too soon, a missed opportunity, a double fault, and then smashed that one out by a mile.

After those few mistakes for Murray, and Nadal generally not being at the top of his game - this could go either way now.

Wheels coming off big style. Hard to see Murray coming back from this. His head must be a mess after blowing that gaping opportunity in the 2nd set.

Murray's head goes in a major match yet again. This is why he'll never be a truly great player and IMO never win a Grand Slam.

All the talent but just not enough mental strength.

And it's all over. Yet again Murray comes up short when it counts.

Oh well - always next year, eh?

Choke choke choke. Doesn't have the mental ability to ever win a Grand Slam, even when in a winning position!!

Murray was superb for over a set and looked every inch a winner then Nadal had his purple spell for two sets. Murray had chances in the last set but just couldn't take them. The fact is Murray is a very good player but Nadal is arguably the best there has ever been.

For me, Murray let that missed opportunity in the second set get to him and his game went to pieces for the best part of two sets as a result. Nadal played well, but Murray's unforced error stats went off the charts and his first serve percentage plummeted.

He self-destructed like he has before. By the time he got his head together again it was way too late.

Murray has the game to beat the big boys on his day but rarely keeps it up (oo er missus) for the full game. He ran Nadal off the court for the first set, but after a bright start to the second just fell away badly. You cannot drop your level and put in that many unforced errors against a player of Nadal's quality.

Nadal and Federer are the best there's ever been, they're unbelievable players. Murray could've and should've performed better after going a set up but it has to be difficult to keep up that level of performance against one of the best players there's ever been. Some of them shots he played in the later set you just couldn't return.

So he's Scottish again now?

Probably.

Yes lets burn him, forget the all the charity work he does that he arranges, and lets forget the dignity he has in defeat, all because he has his initials on his shirt.

Unbelievable some of the criticisms people have sometimes isn't it, only the British public could have a go at Federer because he has intial clothing. Didn't think you were still on these forums mate, it's been a while.

Even if Murray had beaten Nadal,the way Djokovic wiped the floor with him today Murray would have been lucky to win a few games.5 wins in a row for Novac against Nadal.Now we have Federer not able to beat Nadal,Nadal not able to beat Djokovic and Murray not able to beat any of the other 3

Yes ludricous really.

Yeah been away for a while on these forums, much to do with a loss of interest...not for Rugby League, but just the way it is run by the RFL, but thats another debate, im looking forward to the Mtchplay darts and some good debate.

Enjoyed the final today, Novak really deserved his win, i know he has won the Oz Open twice, but a Wimbledon win really puts you on the global map, goes world number 1 tommorow and he'll take some stopping over the next few years.