A few times last season and in the past the "official attendance" given during games has sometimes looked a lot different from the number of people attending. I have a question does anyone on this forum work for the club and knows how the figures are accurate e.g. lets say there are about 9,000 season ticket holders but about 7,500 turn up sometimes does that missing 1,500 get included in the official attendance? In the friendly game last Sunday it was 3,700 but some people think the crowd was about 4,500! I was there in 1987 crushed tight like a sardine for the World club challenge game when there was a capacity of 36,895 but looked

from looking at the highlights on youtube of the game and there could have been well over 44,000 that night!

Id say the manly attendance was probably correct because when we played widnes in a championship decider at wigan in 1991 the whitbread stand was being built and there was 30,000 on that night and probably for the manly game was about 6000/7000 packed into the pavillion end pre Whitbread stand

For crying out loud can we stop banging on about bloody crowds.

Bring back the silicone injected players chat

please dont encourage them ....

Going slightly off topic but still crowd related, IL has stated that season tickets numbers are 'likely' to remain the same as last season despite the new signings. https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/why-wi ... 1-10212347

Going slightly off topic but still crowd related, IL has stated that season tickets numbers are 'likely' to remain the same as last season despite the new signings. https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/why-wi ... 1-10212347

Quote ="MattyB"Going slightly off topic but still crowd related, IL has stated that season tickets numbers are 'likely' to remain the same as last season despite the new signings. https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/why-wi ... 1-10212347'" I think the match day experience is a lot more important to attendances than the quality of the players or the price of tickets. I'm not saying I know how to improve that, but it's certainly the area I'd be targeting from a financial point of view. I remember someone suggesting 'sandwiching' away fans into South East or South West corner to create some back and forth, not a bad idea as long as the stewards are up to dealing with the odd incident. They need to do something about the beer situation too; in the south there seem to be issues with the pumps causing queues every single game.

Quote ="MattyB"Going slightly off topic but still crowd related, IL has stated that season tickets numbers are 'likely' to remain the same as last season despite the new signings. https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/why-wi ... 1-10212347'" I think the match day experience is a lot more important to attendances than the quality of the players or the price of tickets. I'm not saying I know how to improve that, but it's certainly the area I'd be targeting from a financial point of view. I remember someone suggesting 'sandwiching' away fans into South East or South West corner to create some back and forth, not a bad idea as long as the stewards are up to dealing with the odd incident. They need to do something about the beer situation too; in the south there seem to be issues with the pumps causing queues every single game.

Quote ="MattyB"Going slightly off topic but still crowd related, IL has stated that season tickets numbers are 'likely' to remain the same as last season despite the new signings. https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/why-wi ... 1-10212347'" Massively concerning IMO given the investment in the squad and the fact u8’s can now get a free season ticket. I’ve got one for the first time in years and one for my 7 year old for the first time ever and I honestly expected a decent boost in numbers. The club need to do more IMO but the people of Wigan need to do more as well. The people why call out for Lenagan to spend more with a promise they’d then attend more, need to do just that. Some will but plenty will just move on to the next excuse sadly (and I don’t mean people’s finances, work shifts etc). We’ve had the ‘I’ll go when Wane goes’ brigade and the ‘I’ll go when Lenagan puts his hand in his pocket’ calls but yet the crowds continue to dwindle. I myself said Lenagan was running the risk of tainting his legacy by not investing in the squad properly for 2019. I wanted him to either invest in new talent or admit he couldn't and actively look for someone who could. He did the former, brought in some exciting players like French, Hastings and Burgess and I felt compelled to back that and get a season ticket. He must be sitting there at the minute wondering if it was worth it.

Quote ="MattyB"Going slightly off topic but still crowd related, IL has stated that season tickets numbers are 'likely' to remain the same as last season despite the new signings. https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/why-wi ... 1-10212347'" Massively concerning IMO given the investment in the squad and the fact u8’s can now get a free season ticket. I’ve got one for the first time in years and one for my 7 year old for the first time ever and I honestly expected a decent boost in numbers. The club need to do more IMO but the people of Wigan need to do more as well. The people why call out for Lenagan to spend more with a promise they’d then attend more, need to do just that. Some will but plenty will just move on to the next excuse sadly (and I don’t mean people’s finances, work shifts etc). We’ve had the ‘I’ll go when Wane goes’ brigade and the ‘I’ll go when Lenagan puts his hand in his pocket’ calls but yet the crowds continue to dwindle. I myself said Lenagan was running the risk of tainting his legacy by not investing in the squad properly for 2019. I wanted him to either invest in new talent or admit he couldn't and actively look for someone who could. He did the former, brought in some exciting players like French, Hastings and Burgess and I felt compelled to back that and get a season ticket. He must be sitting there at the minute wondering if it was worth it.

Wiganers are a fickle bunch. It's not as if Latics are riding high in the Premier League (which we've had to compete with in the past, and us having higher crowds too).

Has the town fell out of love with the sport? Look around the stadium and we do have a high proportion of older supporters.

I just think that Wiganers like to keep their cash in their pockets and still watch the games if they can.

Back in the day some fans preferred to go off to the pub, for the price of 2-3 pints watch the game.

Then other supporters subscribed to SKY sports for the duration of the season and watched it from home.

But now you can get it even cheaper, for the price of 2 months subscription you can stream live games into your home for twelve months (even better if you're a football fan as well as rugby). Works out about 30 pence a day.

Try and persuade an old supporter to get down to the DW and shell out £20-30 to attend a game when they have been used to watching it streamed in live over the last few years. That's like trying to get the same person to spend £10 on a good lunchtime meal at a quality restaurant when 2 x steak slices for a quid at pound bakery fills the same gap in his belly.

Won't happen.

It’s the “I’ll go when Lam goes” crowd now. There’ll always be excuses, I read some on twitter recently and one delightful chap said something like he doesn’t go as it’s not Central Park (but then said he goes to finals

).

IL could purchase the whole Australian National team and make Wigan an all conquering side m, sweeping up for years on end and there will STILL be excuses.

Mine is simple economics; I can’t get to every game and getting a ST won’t be value for money for me. The same for my two mates I go with. We purchase online tickets and go, generally in the East. We’ll be there next Thursday and every game (except Cas and Huddersfield away) until Catalans at home. We’ve opted for the membership option this season.

I'm pretty much the same, I haven't had a season ticket for a couple of years due to work commitments. However if I do find myself available for a home game then that's first choice for me (even if its on SKY).
Managed to attend two thirds of last seasons home games which was more than I expected). If I can manage that this season then I'll be more than happy.

Exactly what I said a week or so ago on a previous Thread
And I will say it again - The town of "Wigan" will get what it deserves - Because if "We" back our club then I believe more often that not we will come out near the top due to the other advantages the club has (Youth, History etc.)
But if the people of Wigan don't back the club and use whatever excuses they want to use then at some point the club will have to respond to that and cut it's cloth accordingly.
Last year they talked about reducing costs, it doesn't appear to be on the playing front so maybe we've cut costs on Backroom staff, youth development, promotions/marketing, who knows?
At some point any of the cost reductions will have an effect on the club one way or another and I can hear all the voices of discontent when we aren't signing the best youngsters, aren't as fit as other teams etc. etc. and who they will blame for that, and it won't be themselves.

Now I will make it crystal clear again, I'm not criticising individuals for their own decisions and circumstances that dictate when they can or can't go or when they choose to go or not.
What I am saying is that those people don't need to criticise the club, the players, the game itself or anything to justify that stance
The people who can go don't need to constantly scream for perfection and the slightest thing that doesn't go our way criticise the club, the players, the game or each other.

I do believe there are things the club could do better, but when we invested in infrastructure i.e. youth marketing etc. individuals wanted star names - They get star names at the expense of other things and nothing changes.

The club has to continue - and if peoples answer to things is lets get a Sugar Daddy who will cover all the costs so we can sit at home, not support the club and it doesn't matter as Sugar daddy will fill all the gaps then I disagree vehemently.

The club has to be financially viable otherwise at some point it will bite us on the arris. (Whilst some will say lets just go get another sugar daddy).

It's down to the people of Wigan if we want a professional club or not.
Sugar daddies are incredibly thin on the ground, especially for a sport like RL. Just look at football, Sky Sports News desperately trying to make a big thing of the transfer window where even the "wealthiest" clubs are just looking at loan deals.

Dare I suggest that there's a general malaise across the game?

I can only speak for myself here, but I know that as each season passes I fall out of love with the game more & more (not Wigan).

I'm personally bored of the constant race to the bottom that I think has been happening for a few decades now. An example that I'd give would be guys like Koukash coming in and getting shot down by other owners every time he suggest something new. If the guy wanted to blow millions on Salford RL then let him do it imo.

I'm also sick of the head in the sand approach that other teams have. Last season was absolutely diabolical imo - especially in the quality of play, but that's been the case for years. Yet, you speak to Cas fans or Salford fans and they are made up that they can now compete, but why can't they see that it's only because of the lower standards and the constant pegging back of the naturally larger sides?

The constant strive for a competitive league has ruined RL imo. I know it's easier to say this as a Wigan fan, but I'd much rather see 4 or 5 really strong sides (Wigan, Saints, Leeds, Wire and Hull) who are head and shoulders above the rest and allowed to really invest and poach the best players.

I have nothing to back this theory up with, but I feel the real strength of our game are the rivalries and that's what's brings eyeballs & then in turn money into the game. Wigan Vs any of the above listed teams is where the money is at and that's what we should be focusing on and nurturing imo. Support the big teams in every way possible and they'll bring everyone up.

Agree entirely

I’ve been very much the same for a few years but the fixtures were kind this time. I think the quality of the rugby will have an impact. If we play some entertaining stuff then the walk up will be higher. There’s been a couple times these past few seasons were I’ve looked out the window on the night of a televised game and decided to give it a miss. One occasion was last year verses Cas when I made it as far as the Berkeley square and the rain was torrential and I decided to stay in there instead. I don’t think I’d have done that had the quality of the rugby on show in the weeks before that had been higher.

The quality is poor, Thursdays are terrible and every team seems to play in the same formulaic way.

BUT the stagnation in ST sales at Wigan don't actually reflect the trend across SL as a whole. As reported in the RL press, sales are up at Catalans, Wakefield, Salford, Hull, Hull KR, Warrington, Castleford and Toronto. You'd imagine they'd be up at St Helens plus Leeds have their new ground. Stagnant sales at Huddersfield.

It's a problem at Wigan more than a problem with the game itself. Poor entertainment value, poor atmosphere and all the bad news stories off the field across the last 12 months have all likely contributed but the decline started several years ago.

I think a lot of you are overlooking the over playjng of sides,it’s got to ludicrous levels now of playing the same side week in,week out.

Get rid of loop fixtures for starters expand the company to 14 teams then see where we go,the sport is on its knees and I’m not sure there’s a way back for it for some people

Also, isn’t it the oldest trick in the book to announce crowds lower than what’s there for testimonials so you don’t have to pay as much tax?

But other clubs have the same issue and their crowds are increasing?

https://www.rlfans.com/

Very difficult to argue with any of that.
If I'm honest I will be surprised if we have maintained ST levels per 2019 as although we finished quite strongly the early part of the year was pretty disastrous even allowing for the level of injuries and more people are dissatisfied with the quality of the game and the lack of atmosphere at any game at the DW.
Ive been a ST for years but even I have thought about "not bothering" and in 2016 & 2017 I actually gave my ST away part way through both seasons as the quality of the game week in week out was in my view downright abysmal.

The club and the game have got to come up with some new initiatives and maybe resurrect some old ones otherwise as you suggest the game will not survive in its present state.

For me we have to concentrate on new younger fans and making it easier for "roll up fans" to pay on the night.
The free ST for kids under 8 is a great start but we need other sustained targeted marketing on U18 fans e.g. SBW and the Toronto game. For me there should major marketing of this game with incentives for kids/families. We should have been saturating local schools on this forthcoming match to encourage kids to come and see SBW as soon as we knew he had signed for Toronto. The club's & the games lack of marketing is palpable at all times.

I'm obviously not a marketing guy but I'm a guy who knows that the club and the game in general is in severe need of re-branding. Personally I hate the "Warriors" and would abandon it however, if that is the way forward let's do properly or not at all. Very left field should we become Warriors and drop Wigan??

I buy a season ticket partly out of habit, partly because I can afford it and if I'm honest if I had pay on the night or buy a ticket in advance I know that I just wouldn't do it. To go to the North Stand queue up for ages to then walk back to the South stand just doesnt work for me. We need more pay by cash turnstiles and contactless payment turnstiles. We have got to make it easier for fans to have quick and easy access to the stadium.

The game has become too slow and too predictable. Time wasting still continues and I could scream at the number of interchanges that just breeds not very athletic athletes and lazy coaching. The lack of intensity for me is palpable in every game including games against Saints.
The 7th tackle against the attacking team when kicking into dead is a start to reducing the number of lazy, robotic last tackle options however, why don't we give the defending side unlimited tackles after such kicks which I'm sure would reduce such last tackle options. As a sport historically we have been brave with new rules/changes and we need more if we are to re-invigorate the game in becoming more of a spectacle.

Better people than me will have better ideas however, we seem to be sleep walking into oblivion and unless the current malaise is addressed then like you I don't really see much of a future other than a slow painful death.

Will be interesting to see if Saints improve their attendances this season aside of the WCC.

Matty where can I access year on year attendances for all SL clubs? If you could advise a link it would be appreciated.

Every home game I went to last season in the South Stand I entered via a cash turnstile so I don't think that's really an issue anymore (not like the old days of having to get a ticket first).

I definitely think the last two games of last year had a huge negative impact on season ticket sales. A tonking from Saints and a miserable performance against Salford in front of next to no home spectators.

Quote ="Itchy Arsenal"Will be interesting to see if Saints improve their attendances this season aside of the WCC. Matty where can I access year on year attendances for all SL clubs? If you could advise a link it would be appreciated.'" I'm gonna have to eat my own words as I've just done some digging on 2018 attendances (compared to the year before) and found that only two clubs increased during this time: Saints & Hull. I must admit I thought Wire & Cas had also shown increases but obviously not! https://www.cheshire-live.co.uk/sport/a ... n-15657897 2018 average attendances for this year's Super League teams (2017 figure in brackets) Leeds Rhinos 12,807 (14,950) Hull FC 12,174 (11,71icon_cool.gif Wigan Warriors 11,708 (13,983) St Helens 11,478 (10,749) Warrington Wolves 10,088 (10,47icon_cool.gif Catalans Dragons 8,353 (8,777) Hull KR 7,964 (NA) Castleford Tigers 7,898 (9,525) Huddersfield Giants 5,745 (5,826) Wakefield Trinity 5,244 (5,289) Salford Red Devils 2,748 (4,703) Will try find 2019 attendances.

Quote ="Itchy Arsenal"Will be interesting to see if Saints improve their attendances this season aside of the WCC. Matty where can I access year on year attendances for all SL clubs? If you could advise a link it would be appreciated.'" I'm gonna have to eat my own words as I've just done some digging on 2018 attendances (compared to the year before) and found that only two clubs increased during this time: Saints & Hull. I must admit I thought Wire & Cas had also shown increases but obviously not! https://www.cheshire-live.co.uk/sport/a ... n-15657897 2018 average attendances for this year's Super League teams (2017 figure in brackets) Leeds Rhinos 12,807 (14,950) Hull FC 12,174 (11,71icon_cool.gif Wigan Warriors 11,708 (13,983) St Helens 11,478 (10,749) Warrington Wolves 10,088 (10,47icon_cool.gif Catalans Dragons 8,353 (8,777) Hull KR 7,964 (NA) Castleford Tigers 7,898 (9,525) Huddersfield Giants 5,745 (5,826) Wakefield Trinity 5,244 (5,289) Salford Red Devils 2,748 (4,703) Will try find 2019 attendances.

Quote ="MattyB"I'm gonna have to eat my own words as I've just done some digging on 2018 attendances (compared to the year before) and found that only two clubs increased during this time: Saints & Hull. I must admit I thought Wire & Cas had also shown increases but obviously not! https://www.cheshire-live.co.uk/sport/a ... n-15657897 2018 average attendances for this year's Super League teams (2017 figure in brackets) Leeds Rhinos 12,807 (14,950) Hull FC 12,174 (11,71icon_cool.gif Wigan Warriors 11,708 (13,983) St Helens 11,478 (10,749) Warrington Wolves 10,088 (10,47icon_cool.gif Catalans Dragons 8,353 (8,777) Hull KR 7,964 (NA) Castleford Tigers 7,898 (9,525) Huddersfield Giants 5,745 (5,826) Wakefield Trinity 5,244 (5,289) Salford Red Devils 2,748 (4,703) Will try find 2019 attendances.'" Cheers Matty

Quote ="MattyB"I'm gonna have to eat my own words as I've just done some digging on 2018 attendances (compared to the year before) and found that only two clubs increased during this time: Saints & Hull. I must admit I thought Wire & Cas had also shown increases but obviously not! https://www.cheshire-live.co.uk/sport/a ... n-15657897 2018 average attendances for this year's Super League teams (2017 figure in brackets) Leeds Rhinos 12,807 (14,950) Hull FC 12,174 (11,71icon_cool.gif Wigan Warriors 11,708 (13,983) St Helens 11,478 (10,749) Warrington Wolves 10,088 (10,47icon_cool.gif Catalans Dragons 8,353 (8,777) Hull KR 7,964 (NA) Castleford Tigers 7,898 (9,525) Huddersfield Giants 5,745 (5,826) Wakefield Trinity 5,244 (5,289) Salford Red Devils 2,748 (4,703) Will try find 2019 attendances.'" Cheers Matty