I only tend to come on here every so often nowadays but when I do, my main focus is the rumours section or anything to do with player recruitment.

I personally, am becoming quite concerned with our movement in the market (or relative lack thereof). I follow the RL signings on the internet regularly and there is always news of SL clubs signing players but not much in the way of Wigan.

My concern is that the club is trying to put together a side on the cheap by focusing on young players and forgetting that all the great Wigan teams of the SL era have been supplemented by a healthy dose of imported talent.

We have signed Sam who I appreciate wont have come cheap but even with Sam considered (marquee rule and all) then we must have space on the cap to play with for next year and even though we are competitive with the current squad, anyone who has seen us play this year can see we are lacking in some areas.

Is this a concern of anyone else? I am hoping that this topic has been done to death and I just haven't been here to pick up on it.

Frankly, I will consider it a good end to the season if we make it to the GF as anything can happen once we are there but I am concerned that next season other clubs have recruited better than us.

Just out of curiosity, and hoping to open the debate up, who do you think has recruited better than us?

I'd say Leeds.

For me its not about one club making loads of singings but a number of sides improving their teams. Sandow will be an improvement on Myler, Galloway is an improvement on Peacock, Taylor will improve Les Cats.

Would you rather have Sandow than Tomkins though? I really don't see Galloway as an improvement on Peacock. Taylor, not sure and Cats are losing Zeb Tia. Leeds are losing Paul Aiton so it'll be interesting to see who they replace him with, he tore Saints apart on Friday and their intensity dropped off alarmingly when he went off injured.

Hull and HKR have brought in even more imports, but at the cost of merging their academies. Would you rather Wigan marge their academy with Leigh or Saints and sign a couple of aging Aussies?

Watching Leeds could be interesting.... The influence players like Peacock and Sinfield have is very difficult replace........

I just worry when statements are made that we won't be looking at the NRL. We simply can't ignore the NRL if we want to remain up near the top of the league IMO. We don't need to go any further back then 2013 to see that top Wigan sides include good overseas players. In 2013 Pat Richards and Blake Green were huge for us and before that in 2010 guys like Carmont, Leuluai and Riddell were equally as important.

I as much as anyone wants young lads to thrive but not at the expense of success. On the plus side I think we're only a good prop away from having a superb side next year but I look at superleague and I don't see where that prop comes from (realistically). I then look at a player like Keith Galloway signing for Leeds and feel we've missed out. This guy made 180m from 16-17 carries at the weekend. I'd like to know when the last time one of our props even came close to that?

I see what your saying Rogues and maybe it is an over reaction just because Wigan is where my loyalties lie.

But my general perception is that the teams around us seem to be keen on improving their squads no matter where the talent comes from. As for Wigan I get the feeling we would rather play a youngster a year too soon than sign an overseas player who takes up a place for two years and then the youngster would be wasted for that extra year.

I personally think Wire are doing good business with Gidley, Sandow plus the rumours of them being in for Eastmond etc.

I think everyone would agree that ideally this years team would need 1 or 2 signings (in addition to Sam) even before anyone left. However, I think we will probably lose a few and just replace those like for like

Is Zeb Taia off? Blow if that's true on top of Whitehead.

We're just a prop short IMO if there's no more major exits. I think Galloway could have been that man. Maybe Sam Tomkins will know of a big, mean, block busting prop we can sign from the Warriors who'd not cost the earth.

Sorry Rogues but you're clouding the argument here. Why would we have to merge our academy with anyone? The point is that there are good Aussie options being taken up, in the forwards particularly, by other clubs. It doesn't matter whether Galloway is an improvement on Peacock, he is an improvement on any of our current prop options. Similarly, I'm of the opinion that Taylor would immeasurably strengthen our pack. Now, it may be that we have signings in the pipeline as Nicky Kiss mentioned but, if we don't, I can understand if people start to comment on it at the very least, not least for the fact that, as you yourself say, we are operating under the cap already and will be losing players next year, freeing up even more space. If it transpires that IL spends the cap money augmenting the contracts of our current personnel I for one would be less than ecstatic about it.

Tomkins of course.

I think you are missing my point a little.

Sandow isn't Wire's only signing is he. Leeds have brought in Garbut, Galloway and Mullally. Sam might be better than all of them but he's only one guy. The players i've mentioned are all ready made players for the here and now and not for 3/5 years time like the kids we will more than likely be bringing through



Why can't we do both? Why does it have to be one or the other?

I'd personally be happy to run with a smaller squad if it meant injecting a bit more quality in it. For example i would have been happy replacing two from 6 if Tomkins and Galloway replaced Bowen, Burgess, Patrick, Logan, Thornley & Hughes.

I'll return the compliment and say "spot on!". At the beginning of the season I was of the opinion that our depth would be our biggest asset but now I'm not so sure. I know we are kind of criticising things whilst we are sitting pretty in the league but I yearn for quality, like you. It's a reflection of our squad (or perhaps just my view of it) that I view Galloway as "quality".

What if that current player was Hampshire?

On one hand we criticise the club for not finding a way to accommodate this talented kid in the first team, and on the other we complain that we aren't signing any Aussie imports (who, by the nature of the beast, will not be among the best in the NRL).

Don't get me wrong ... I'm worried about our recruitment too. I think our props are largely crap, and we are desperately in need of a quality centre.

But if money is being spent on keeping our best young players - in other words, trying to prevent another Burgess situation - I wouldn't be terribly unhappy.

I'd give you Hampshire at a pinch but feel the analogy with Burgess is being too kind to him. However, given those presumably exiting it shouldn't be too difficult to meet his financial demands. Also, I suspect money won't be the primary issue with Hampshire, it will be about first team opportunities which the coach isn't giving him at the moment.

I think there's a big difference between quality and quantity. I personally think even with 6 players leaving there's still enough squad players to cover the loss of 4 of them. That to me is a massive indicator of how swelled we appear to be.

Agreed about Galloway but you made a decent point on another thread about all this being relative. When you are comparing him to the quality of props both at our club and in SL in general he is undoubted quality. Galloway like Cuthbertson might not compare to top NRL props but they are easily good enough to make a big impact at Wigan.

Then its simply bad management imo.

If you have a player as talented as Hampshire then you don't bring in someone who is a direct competition for him. Why does it have to be one or the other? You can retain youngsters and at the same time sign decent players.

To be fair, that's guesswork. We don't know what his primary issue is, but we know that money always helps. I too doubt we'd be competing with anyone in the NRL for him, but to lose him to Saints would be even worse.

However, I take your overall point. I'm worried that we lack ambition in recruitment terms. I don't buy the argument that we finished 3rd so everything must be okay. We know we have glaring weaknesses in this team, and with no sign that anyone is coming to fill these gaps, it's hardly reassuring.

But I don't think we can ignore the Burgess issue. When a starlet signs to go to Aus before he's even made it in the British game, that should worry us. If we're shoring up contracts to prevent that happening again, I wouldn't be displeased.

I think what we have to do is look how to improve our squad.

If there is someone ready to step up and replace a first 17 player then fantastic. We then need to consider balance within the squad maybe we can afford to lose a little quality in one area if it means we can gain in another.

If there isn't the quality then we need to recruit, it's not rocket science.

Looking at our squad going into this year I and others would have liked an experienced stop gap at 6 and a Prop at the very least. I still think we would be much better placed had we done so rather than sign a couple of Secondrow come Props.

Moving forward there are serious issues to address. Obviously upfront we still lack a quality experienced Prop. Patrick has to go. Woeful signing. You don't find experienced quality first team leaders in the youth system so you have to look to recruit. Simple.

Our backrow lacks size, again another glaring issue. Do we have a real quality big young backrow in the youth set up? No. We need to recruit. Connor Farrell will not fit into our 17 if we are to retain his big brother and Bateman.

Not recruiting a half last year has cost us dear. Powell has shown glimpses but never enough to think he was ever going to be a first team regular at a top club. Williams should have gone to half, 2 year deal for am experienced 6 with Rocky backing him up would give us quality, consistency and an easing into first team rugby of 2 quality young players. We haven't and we are shocking at hooker when MM goes off and we are more than likely going to lose Rocky as soon as he can get away. Given the decisions made last year though we now need to stick with what we have in that position.

Wing is covered with Manfredi but we lack any backup beyond that and also look very stretched if we pick up a knock in the centre. Ideally I would like us to sign a utility wing/centre to cover that position.

Backup hooker is a massive issue but Wane has cast his dice and now we look stook with what we have.

We have already made some very poor decisions in our recruitment. We are clearly weaker than last year and we need to recruit at least 3 players to get it moving forward again.

Hubris in our youth system is costing us in my opinion and our seemingly Wigan bias/mentality is also holding the club back at times.

I think people become frustrated seeing players signed by other clubs who we know style wise we are crying out for. Galloway instantly gives us what we need upfront, Taylor gives us size in the backrow that we so badly need. I appreciate we may have bid and lost out it may have other irons in the fire and this could be all premature concern when the time line up for fixture 1 of the 2016 season, but given our recent activity in this department especially last year I think the concern is justified at the moment.

Hindsight is a great thing. Right upto the start of the season the general feeling on this forum was that we were in fine shape. We had a bigger pack and had recruited well. Sometimes things do no go as we thought that they would. I for one would not have questionned our recruitment and to some extent we have to live with that as we cannot just tear up contracts. I realise that some players will be leaving and so can free up some cash but great replacements are hard to find. I Wonder when those clubs, that have announced signings, started to put feelers out. Finding the right fit, as opposed to the desperately feeding on scraps as they become avaliable, takes a longer view, unless some catastrophy suddenly drops some world class players in your lap as happened to us in the past.
We carry a big squad because we give the youngsters a chance, otherwise why bother with an academy, and I do not want that to change. Yes, a big, hard running forward, with good hands, who tackles like SOL would improve our squad, but they are rare. My gut feeling is that the club are still looking at what will happen to SOL next year before they flash the cash.

I think if you look back there were many of us that were concerned by our recruitment at the start of this season and our lack of size/balance. Personally the only positive at the time for me was Tautai because I though he would give us that explosive runner we have lacked for a while and to be fair he hasn't hit the heights I would have expected.

If we are waiting to see what happens with SOL then we have missed out again on players as most are already signed for next year both here and overseas or at least at very late stages of sorting a deal.

In Bateman we have a SOL replacement already at the club whenever he decides to step aside. You sign a big Secondrow you tick one box and you still have room to accommodate Tomkins, Sol, Farrell and Bateman rotating the squad and for the inevitable periods SOL is out or the others pick up a knock.

I was personally happy with the way things looked this time last year.

Green was leaving but i was confident in Rocky being a perfect for HB partner for Smith - he hasn't been given the chance.

Joel was back and i was more than confident that once up to speed he would be an excellent addition at 2nd row - he's played far too much time at centre.

We had Taylor and like you i thought TT would have been excellent foil with Taylor, Flower and Clubb - Taylor left and also left a HUGE hole.

The above is annoying but it also reminds me of the Noble era or Saints of 24 months ago- i.e. a good team that with a few tweaks or additions is changed into something completely different.

Agree with most of this. Galloway is no Peacock, but, as said, he's a decent pro who will churn up the metres (more than our current props do). The point about an experienced wing/centre is a fair one. Someone like Mantellato, or Krisnan Inu ? Funnily enough was chatting online to a St George fan last night, who reckoned that Cuthbertson was a good player for them who'd tailed off at Newcastle (I'd remarked that I never thought he looked anything much at the Knights; didn't remember him at SGI). Either way, going to Leeds seems to have worked for him. If only we could find another like him!

As for halves, I reckon Williams has done pretty well this season on balance, with the bonus that unlike ageing Aussies, he'll be a better player next year, not a worse one: see Luke Walsh!

I'm not always the biggest fan of the NRL, but now some of the top teams are really hitting their straps at the business end of the season, you have to be impressed by the way the likes of the Roosters are playing. They have some of the best props in the business, can carry the ball upfield against anyone, and when in the attacking zone, they have the precision and flair to put points on the game. Forwards and backs all play their part. Our generally very good outside backs are being asked to do much too much.

Signing Patrick and Tautai was never going to solve our size issue however much Lenagan and Wane tried to pretend it would. Sadly it's turned out that not only are they both small props but they're also a liability in many other areas (ball retention and defensively being two big issues).

I do still think Tautai can pull it round with a big fitness push in the off season but Patricks surely a goner. If Tautai had the correct support around him upfront he'd instantly improve. He'd have been great for Saints playing off the back of Walmsley, Amor and Masoe with Roby working off the back of his strong suit (his running game).

It seems like there is a lot of people that share my genuine concern about our recruitment policy in the last 18 months but sadly, there doesnt appear to be any signs from within the club that its going to change.

I havent been to the fans forums held by IL but I would be interested to hear if anyone asked him whether he was consciously making an effort to promote youngsters from within rather than looking for established players for the here and now ("on the cheap"icon_wink.gif as some may call it.

The point I was trying to make is that even in relatively recent times we have gone abroad for players to do a job and even the players that havent been world beaters in the NRL like Carmont have gone on and done great things for the club. Now we seem to prefer playing second rowers out of position to fill that gap.

Similarly with the halves, Green left and I genuinely believe that 3/5 years ago we would have got in an established player to keep things ticking over until something better became available or an academy product became up to the task.

In an ideal world, I would hope to see Wigan sign a centre, a hooker/halfback and two props for next year. Realistically, I expect it to be a replacement for Patrick plus Sam with some big news that we have signed some academy players to long term contracts

I think I'll wait until I see what our recruitment is, before being content or critical.

I can understand the comments from both sides of this debate so far to be honest.

teams such as Catalans, leeds and wire have announced recent signings of a good calibre and it all seems pretty quiet from a wigan point of view. we already know we have sam back at FB next year but that doesn't fix the whole team where it is needed and we all know there are a number of areas of concern at present and for the short term future (based largely on opinion, of course). on paper sam may be a better player than most of the oppositions teams recent signings but those signings appear to show how the other teams are plugging gaps and improving their squads with dependable and proven players. what have we done other than re-sign sam?

I fear another year of "blooding youngsters" which is what wane wants. why did wigan feel the need to showcase a game in London for the blue chip community? are we actually that skint? it all seems too much of a coincidence if you ask me. I love wanes passion and his thoughts on an all local based first team set of players but this is simply not going to work in the modern game. especially when he won't even play some of our youngsters half of the bloody time anyway! a very bizarre situation we are in at the moment I think.

we may do well in the super 8's but I fear a year of doom and gloom next year and I wouldn't be surprised if we won't be in a position to contend a trophy in the next few years if the club carry on with the current recruitment policies. we have a great squad don't get me wrong, but its not good enough to simply refuse or not commit to building on it.