Been a recurring problem this year and has been evident the past two seasons. Not the reason we lost today but played a part.

Our props we all know aren't big enough. But today what struck me was the size-mismatch all over the pitch.

Larne Patrick and Bateman both played loose today but in an age when the loose forward position is commonly used as a third prop none are big enough.

Junior Sau and Josh Griffin, both only playing centre for Salford, were still bigger than most of our props. I felt sorry for Dan Sarginson. He's obviously a good player with natural talent but he was a lamb to slaughter today. Coming up against players who were 3-5 stone heaver than him meant he was bullied all game.

Not just Sarginson though, we held up well the first 20 minutes but after that our forwards lost all collisions. Tautai and Patrick still have a lot to prove. Clubb was decent but not great, as was Mossop. James Greenwood was poor as well.


With this in mind, I'm wondering who coaches our forwards? Even in our winning teams in past years they've not really been great. This season they're worse than ever though. Greenwood looked decent at London of all teams last year but has gone backwards for us so far. Crosby the same, his performances have got worse. Tautai and Patrick haven't impressed either so far.

Indeed, when Ben Flower returns he'll help us, but It'd be naive to think his presence alone will solve all the chronic problems with our forwards and our teams lack of size in general.


What does everyone think?

I actually think the proposed rule change to reduce the number substitutes can't come soon enough.

Under the current rules, yes we're too small and we're going to struggle all year long as a result.

What I think, is that we are missing Flower and Taylor as starting props big time.
Flower is due back in a couple of weeks.
Please let me indulge with a big Wigan pack -

Crosby 6'4"
McIlorum 5'9"
Mossop 6'5"
Tomkins J 6'3"
Gelling 6'6"
O'Loughlin 6'2"
Clubb, Flower and either Greenwood or Sutton who are all around the 6'1" range to be the interchage props. Thornley (Who'll be back in a month) and Sarginson to be centres, with Bateman as back up.
Bateman and Farrell to be bench 2nd rowers, along with Logan as bench 9.

That starting pack has size, pace, aggression and would make a massive impact from the kick off.
With Clubb and Flower as subs there would be dropping of intensity at all.
All that's needed is Lockers, Crosby, Thornley & Flower back - that's ALL!

Height important, but MORE important is weight and how the forwards carry themselves. Ours currently are getting bullied in most games. Friday the exception. What is causing this?

Not sure where you are getting those stats from but they're not right. I'm a little less than 6'2 and about the same height as Gelling and Mossop, bit taller than Clubb, McIlorum was a bit taller than that as well (stood next to them today). Pretty sure I'm taller than Lockers as well. Maybe they should stick me in there

I thought James Greenwood was invisible today...

We signed the wrong Greenwood brother. He might not have played today, but he's going backwards from what I've seen of him this year, just like Crosby. Whoever coaches our forwards clearly isn't up to the job.

He didn't actually play though, did he?

Ditto? He didn't play

going backwards

Neither did Crosby, point is more general though. They don't deserve to play even if fit on their current performances.

Current performances? What current performances have you seen from Greenwood?

What current performances? Admit it Pacific, you have no idea who Greenwood is, have you?

Hi jackdog, of course I do. I've watched him plenty of times this season, and in pre-season. Each and every time he's been anonymous. Each time I've been disappointed. Not sure if he's a relative of yours or not (hence why you're defending him) but either way his performances have been a disgrace to the Cherry and White shirt. Will he improve and have a good future? Probably. But his performances so far have been abysmal. Hence why, despite how bad our forwards did today, he still shouldn't be picked next week.

Hope that cleared things up for you.

You're judging him from 2 pre-season games where he played probably 30 minutes total?

Either you are confusing him with Sutton or someone, or you're just a complete idiot. Either way you are the "disgrace to the Cherry and White shirt".

You've watched him play plenty times this season? He's only had one game

in preseason he was one of the stand outs against Leigh and barely played against Saints. Why not just admit you were making things up to seem knowledgeable and hot caught out on this occasion? You won't be the only Wigan 'fan' who does this after we lose a game.

Pacific,
I'm beginning to think you are joshing us here? If I recall, Greenwood played as sub at Cas last month. Were you there? Don't think he has played for first team otherwise, except in friendlies preseason. If your assessment of his current performances is based on those games, your judgement is perhaps slightly warped? It makes the rest of your expert analysis of the team somewhat dodgy, wouldn't you say?

You guys should sign Peter Crouch. He's tall, therefore he would be an amazing prop #shortballcity