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Sam got targeted (clearly), got up every time, stuck up for himself and his brother (who was sent off)... then won the game. Agar's tactics didnt work and he was bitter. Both Tomkins got found guilty by RFL for what they did and have been rightly punished. It really is that simple.
Now can we hear the last of the invisible 'tackle technique' rubbish?
Can we hear the last of 'Wigan dont get punished'?
Somehow I doubt it. |
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Suprise suprise no hull fan arguing on this thread with a pic like that on op
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The problem is that you can freeze frame every tackle and at some point it will look bad. That's why Joel only got one match for the forearm on Sunday. If you just took the photo as shown in the Evening Post then it would look like a four match ban.
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"The problem is that you can freeze frame every tackle and at some point it will look bad. That's why Joel only got one match for the forearm on Sunday. If you just took the photo as shown in the Evening Post then it would look like a four match ban.'"
The tackle here is the exception to that rule he never deviated from that grapple position and then tried to hit sam for attempting to get up. |
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"The problem is that you can freeze frame every tackle and at some point it will look bad. That's why Joel only got one match for the forearm on Sunday. If you just took the photo as shown in the Evening Post then it would look like a four match ban.'"
Thought Joel got two matches? |
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| Quote ="dirtbag83"Thought Joel got two matches?'"
Think it's one for the tackle, one for the fight. |
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"The problem is that you can freeze frame every tackle and at some point it will look bad. That's why Joel only got one match for the forearm on Sunday. If you just took the photo as shown in the Evening Post then it would look like a four match ban.'"
That point can be further illustrated by looking at the 2nd posters (Bowvey) avatar! I very much doubt O'Loughlin got a ban for that late, high elbow (I realize that is probably not as it looks, by the way). |
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| Quote ="Duke Eddington"That point can be further illustrated by looking at the 2nd posters (Bowvey) avatar! I very much doubt O'Loughlin got a ban for that late, high elbow (I realize that is probably not as it looks, by the way).'"
It started in the chest like the Joel one and it definitely went to tribunal but I forget the outcome. |
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| Quote ="hula89"It started in the chest like the Joel one and it definitely went to tribunal but I forget the outcome.'"
There you go then. Further comfirmation, by yourself, that a single frame shot doesn't tell the full story |
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| Quote ="WigansForeignLegion"Think it's one for the tackle, one for the fight.'"
The retalliation rule seriously needs looking at!! How can Joel get anything for his part in the fight? He was clearly punched about 3 times before he got involved, what else was he meant to do??? |
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| Quote ="Vectrabeast"The retalliation rule seriously needs looking at!! How can Joel get anything for his part in the fight? He was clearly punched about 3 times before he got involved, what else was he meant to do???'"
Ahh but rules are rules vectra. If someone starts punching you repeatedly you have to take it. You can, however, offer alternative areas of the body for the aggressor to punch. I believe they do allow players to defend themselves, however if they throw too many punches then the RFL decide that they were just as bad as the aggressor.
Basically, if someone starts punching you repeatedly, you can hit them back two or three times but if they continue to punch you then you have to give up and accept a beating. |
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Not sure I agree on the pictorial evidence being misleading in this case.
The before...during...and after of an impact can come across in many ways: elbows can ride up, hands can go into faces, one person might drop so it looks like the other has gone high...all sorts. The nanosecond a camera goes click can tell any story.
However - in the OP's picture, he has got Sam in a grip. It's not an impact, it's a clear grip that he is using to lever Sam over backwards and over. It might be argued that his grip could change during that action, but I doubt his left arm was ever any lower than it is as pictured.
I've no idea why Ganson didn't take some action. What I do know is if that tackle was carried out on an amateur field, there'd probably be a brawl.
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| Quote ="Cronus"Not sure I agree on the pictorial evidence being misleading in this case.
The before...during...and after of an impact can come across in many ways: elbows can ride up, hands can go into faces, one person might drop so it looks like the other has gone high...all sorts. The nanosecond a camera goes click can tell any story.
However - in the OP's picture, he has got Sam in a grip. It's not an impact, it's a clear grip that he is using to lever Sam over backwards and over. It might be argued that his grip could change during that action, but I doubt his left arm was ever any lower than it is as pictured.
I've no idea why Ganson didn't take some action. What I do know is if that tackle was carried out on an amateur field, there'd probably be a brawl.'"
well said, the pic shows that sam is being pulled down in an illegal grip.
hull fans cannot argue that at all.
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Funny too how the press only gave the Tomkins ban and not the other players (well the Daily Mirror did) i forgot though we get preferential treatment!!!!!
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"The problem is that you can freeze frame every tackle and at some point it will look bad. That's why Joel only got one match for the forearm on Sunday. If you just took the photo as shown in the Evening Post then it would look like a four match ban.'"
Good point, well made. Nothing in that tackle at all, this pic just proves why it was never brought up.
It's a shame your honest posts are the exception rather than the rule on this board. |
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Wigan are accused of having an Aussie style of defence and the rest of Super League clubs think its unfair, yet are these the same Super League clubs & fans, the same Sky Sports commentators (Barrie McDermott) that are saying look at how well Burgess & Ellis are doing in the NRL and why don't we send more English talent over there to learn their techniques. You can't have it both ways, you either muscle up the way the Aussies do or we continue to play tick & pass and play second fiddle to the Aussies.
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| Quote ="east hull FC fan"Good point, well made. Nothing in that tackle at all, this pic just proves why it was never brought up.
It's a shame your honest posts are the exception rather than the rule on this board.'"
Thank you for confirming what I suspected from reading your other posts on this forum. You are either an idiot blinded by loyalty or just a troll.
Nothing in that tackle??? What happens before or after that shot is irrelevant. At that point your player has his arms around sam's neck, and pulling him over his own body. At that point, all or at least the majority of Sam's weight +the force used to execute the lift is being put on Sam's neck. Now I say this tackle is 100 times worse than any chicken wing tackle you will ever see.
AFWIW I think Joel deserved his ban for the attack to Yeaman's head too. (Although not for punching back after being punched 3 times) |
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| Quote ="east hull FC fan"Good point, well made. Nothing in that tackle at all, this pic just proves why it was never brought up.'"
You have been posting some reasonable arguments until this. The tackle was very dangerous, no one can deny that. |
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| Quote ="east hull FC fan"Good point, well made. Nothing in that tackle at all, this pic just proves why it was never brought up.
It's a shame your honest posts are the exception rather than the rule on this board.'"
Please can you tell us why you didn't use this argument in the thread on the Hull FC board which had "incriminating" pictures of Joel Tomkins elbowing Yeaman in the face?
Could it be that your posts are so partial that they are best ignored for lack of useful content? |
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I don't understand how a player can be put on report but not be seen at the disiplinary. At the very least the RFL should see the player to make a no-case statement and why to make the process appear more open and honnest.
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Wigan were awarded a penalty for that tackle.
Ganson spoke to Manu, on the run, about it.
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| Quote ="Arthur Warrior"Wigan are accused of having an Aussie style of defence'"
You're confusing an Aussie style of defence with a Melbourne style of defence.
They aren't the same thing by the way and I think you'll find there was plenty of complaint in the NRL about Melbourne so its not an England v Oz thing. You're twisting the complaints like Lima twists arms  |
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The problem I have with all this is that I've yet to see or hear an opposition coach come up with any evidence of a specific complaint. Until they do it all just sounds like sour grapes because their team has just been turned over
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Something to shut Hull fans Up when complaining about Wigan thinking we have been unfairly punished.
Here is the page of Radfords charge from the RFL:
www.therfl.co.uk/disciplinary/item?2400
Here is Lima's for the Saints game:
www.therfl.co.uk/disciplinary/item?2320
Notice a part of that is almost word for word:
Radford's:
"The Panel believed that your opponent’s limb was moved in an abnormal direction and outside the usual ranges of movement. Of particular concern to the Panel was your action in grabbing your opponent’s arm and shoulder, then proceeding to put your opponent’s arm and shoulder in a vulnerable position behind his back, with your body weight maintaining the arm in a vulnerable position with the arm and shoulder joint rotated in an abnormal direction that involved an unacceptable risk of injury to that player. As a defender you have a special duty to avoid such contact. The Panel believed your actions were unnecessary and could have resulted in an injury to your opponent"
Lima's:
"The Panel believed that your opponent’s limb was moved in an abnormal direction and outside the usual ranges of movement. Of particular concern to the Panel was your action in grabbing your opponent’s arm and shoulder, then proceeding to put your opponent’s arm and shoulder in a vulnerable position, with the arm and shoulder joint rotated in an abnormal direction that involved an unacceptable risk of injury to that player. As a defender you have a special duty to avoid such contact. The Panel believed your actions were unnecessary and could have resulted in an injury to your opponent."
Result:
Lima - 2 matches.
Radford - 0 matches.
Oh and to add Lima pleaded guilty and apologised Radford pleaded not guilty and has so far not apologised for his actions. |
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Something to shut Hull fans Up when complaining about Wigan thinking we have been unfairly punished.
Here is the page of Radfords charge from the RFL:
www.therfl.co.uk/disciplinary/item?2400
Here is Lima's for the Saints game:
www.therfl.co.uk/disciplinary/item?2320
Notice a part of that is almost word for word:
Radford's:
"The Panel believed that your opponent’s limb was moved in an abnormal direction and outside the usual ranges of movement. Of particular concern to the Panel was your action in grabbing your opponent’s arm and shoulder, then proceeding to put your opponent’s arm and shoulder in a vulnerable position behind his back, with your body weight maintaining the arm in a vulnerable position with the arm and shoulder joint rotated in an abnormal direction that involved an unacceptable risk of injury to that player. As a defender you have a special duty to avoid such contact. The Panel believed your actions were unnecessary and could have resulted in an injury to your opponent"
Lima's:
"The Panel believed that your opponent’s limb was moved in an abnormal direction and outside the usual ranges of movement. Of particular concern to the Panel was your action in grabbing your opponent’s arm and shoulder, then proceeding to put your opponent’s arm and shoulder in a vulnerable position, with the arm and shoulder joint rotated in an abnormal direction that involved an unacceptable risk of injury to that player. As a defender you have a special duty to avoid such contact. The Panel believed your actions were unnecessary and could have resulted in an injury to your opponent."
Result:
Lima - 2 matches.
Radford - 0 matches.
Oh and to add Lima pleaded guilty and apologised Radford pleaded not guilty and has so far not apologised for his actions. | |
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Quote ="hula89"Something to shut Hull fans Up when complaining about Wigan thinking we have been unfairly punished.
Here is the page of Radfords charge from the RFL:
www.therfl.co.uk/disciplinary/item?2400
Here is Lima's for the Saints game:
www.therfl.co.uk/disciplinary/item?2320
Notice a part of that is almost word for word:
Radford's:
"The Panel believed that your opponent’s limb was moved in an abnormal direction and outside the usual ranges of movement. Of particular concern to the Panel was your action in grabbing your opponent’s arm and shoulder, then proceeding to put your opponent’s arm and shoulder in a vulnerable position behind his back, with your body weight maintaining the arm in a vulnerable position with the arm and shoulder joint rotated in an abnormal direction that involved an unacceptable risk of injury to that player. As a defender you have a special duty to avoid such contact. The Panel believed your actions were unnecessary and could have resulted in an injury to your opponent"
Lima's:
"The Panel believed that your opponent’s limb was moved in an abnormal direction and outside the usual ranges of movement. Of particular concern to the Panel was your action in grabbing your opponent’s arm and shoulder, then proceeding to put your opponent’s arm and shoulder in a vulnerable position, with the arm and shoulder joint rotated in an abnormal direction that involved an unacceptable risk of injury to that player. As a defender you have a special duty to avoid such contact. The Panel believed your actions were unnecessary and could have resulted in an injury to your opponent."
Result:
Lima - 2 matches.
Radford - 0 matches.
Oh and to add Lima pleaded guilty and apologised Radford pleaded not guilty and has so far not apologised for his actions.'"
It's very hard to justify any difference, unless the disciplinary panel has changed? |
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Quote ="hula89"Something to shut Hull fans Up when complaining about Wigan thinking we have been unfairly punished.
Here is the page of Radfords charge from the RFL:
www.therfl.co.uk/disciplinary/item?2400
Here is Lima's for the Saints game:
www.therfl.co.uk/disciplinary/item?2320
Notice a part of that is almost word for word:
Radford's:
"The Panel believed that your opponent’s limb was moved in an abnormal direction and outside the usual ranges of movement. Of particular concern to the Panel was your action in grabbing your opponent’s arm and shoulder, then proceeding to put your opponent’s arm and shoulder in a vulnerable position behind his back, with your body weight maintaining the arm in a vulnerable position with the arm and shoulder joint rotated in an abnormal direction that involved an unacceptable risk of injury to that player. As a defender you have a special duty to avoid such contact. The Panel believed your actions were unnecessary and could have resulted in an injury to your opponent"
Lima's:
"The Panel believed that your opponent’s limb was moved in an abnormal direction and outside the usual ranges of movement. Of particular concern to the Panel was your action in grabbing your opponent’s arm and shoulder, then proceeding to put your opponent’s arm and shoulder in a vulnerable position, with the arm and shoulder joint rotated in an abnormal direction that involved an unacceptable risk of injury to that player. As a defender you have a special duty to avoid such contact. The Panel believed your actions were unnecessary and could have resulted in an injury to your opponent."
Result:
Lima - 2 matches.
Radford - 0 matches.
Oh and to add Lima pleaded guilty and apologised Radford pleaded not guilty and has so far not apologised for his actions.'"
It's very hard to justify any difference, unless the disciplinary panel has changed? | |
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