It’s the “I’ll go when Lam goes” crowd now. There’ll always be excuses, I read some on twitter recently and one delightful chap said something like he doesn’t go as it’s not Central Park (but then said he goes to finals

).

IL could purchase the whole Australian National team and make Wigan an all conquering side m, sweeping up for years on end and there will STILL be excuses.

Mine is simple economics; I can’t get to every game and getting a ST won’t be value for money for me. The same for my two mates I go with. We purchase online tickets and go, generally in the East. We’ll be there next Thursday and every game (except Cas and Huddersfield away) until Catalans at home. We’ve opted for the membership option this season.

I'm pretty much the same, I haven't had a season ticket for a couple of years due to work commitments. However if I do find myself available for a home game then that's first choice for me (even if its on SKY).
Managed to attend two thirds of last seasons home games which was more than I expected). If I can manage that this season then I'll be more than happy.

Exactly what I said a week or so ago on a previous Thread
And I will say it again - The town of "Wigan" will get what it deserves - Because if "We" back our club then I believe more often that not we will come out near the top due to the other advantages the club has (Youth, History etc.)
But if the people of Wigan don't back the club and use whatever excuses they want to use then at some point the club will have to respond to that and cut it's cloth accordingly.
Last year they talked about reducing costs, it doesn't appear to be on the playing front so maybe we've cut costs on Backroom staff, youth development, promotions/marketing, who knows?
At some point any of the cost reductions will have an effect on the club one way or another and I can hear all the voices of discontent when we aren't signing the best youngsters, aren't as fit as other teams etc. etc. and who they will blame for that, and it won't be themselves.

Now I will make it crystal clear again, I'm not criticising individuals for their own decisions and circumstances that dictate when they can or can't go or when they choose to go or not.
What I am saying is that those people don't need to criticise the club, the players, the game itself or anything to justify that stance
The people who can go don't need to constantly scream for perfection and the slightest thing that doesn't go our way criticise the club, the players, the game or each other.

I do believe there are things the club could do better, but when we invested in infrastructure i.e. youth marketing etc. individuals wanted star names - They get star names at the expense of other things and nothing changes.

The club has to continue - and if peoples answer to things is lets get a Sugar Daddy who will cover all the costs so we can sit at home, not support the club and it doesn't matter as Sugar daddy will fill all the gaps then I disagree vehemently.

The club has to be financially viable otherwise at some point it will bite us on the arris. (Whilst some will say lets just go get another sugar daddy).

It's down to the people of Wigan if we want a professional club or not.
Sugar daddies are incredibly thin on the ground, especially for a sport like RL. Just look at football, Sky Sports News desperately trying to make a big thing of the transfer window where even the "wealthiest" clubs are just looking at loan deals.

Dare I suggest that there's a general malaise across the game?

I can only speak for myself here, but I know that as each season passes I fall out of love with the game more & more (not Wigan).

I'm personally bored of the constant race to the bottom that I think has been happening for a few decades now. An example that I'd give would be guys like Koukash coming in and getting shot down by other owners every time he suggest something new. If the guy wanted to blow millions on Salford RL then let him do it imo.

I'm also sick of the head in the sand approach that other teams have. Last season was absolutely diabolical imo - especially in the quality of play, but that's been the case for years. Yet, you speak to Cas fans or Salford fans and they are made up that they can now compete, but why can't they see that it's only because of the lower standards and the constant pegging back of the naturally larger sides?

The constant strive for a competitive league has ruined RL imo. I know it's easier to say this as a Wigan fan, but I'd much rather see 4 or 5 really strong sides (Wigan, Saints, Leeds, Wire and Hull) who are head and shoulders above the rest and allowed to really invest and poach the best players.

I have nothing to back this theory up with, but I feel the real strength of our game are the rivalries and that's what's brings eyeballs & then in turn money into the game. Wigan Vs any of the above listed teams is where the money is at and that's what we should be focusing on and nurturing imo. Support the big teams in every way possible and they'll bring everyone up.

Agree entirely

I’ve been very much the same for a few years but the fixtures were kind this time. I think the quality of the rugby will have an impact. If we play some entertaining stuff then the walk up will be higher. There’s been a couple times these past few seasons were I’ve looked out the window on the night of a televised game and decided to give it a miss. One occasion was last year verses Cas when I made it as far as the Berkeley square and the rain was torrential and I decided to stay in there instead. I don’t think I’d have done that had the quality of the rugby on show in the weeks before that had been higher.

The quality is poor, Thursdays are terrible and every team seems to play in the same formulaic way.

BUT the stagnation in ST sales at Wigan don't actually reflect the trend across SL as a whole. As reported in the RL press, sales are up at Catalans, Wakefield, Salford, Hull, Hull KR, Warrington, Castleford and Toronto. You'd imagine they'd be up at St Helens plus Leeds have their new ground. Stagnant sales at Huddersfield.

It's a problem at Wigan more than a problem with the game itself. Poor entertainment value, poor atmosphere and all the bad news stories off the field across the last 12 months have all likely contributed but the decline started several years ago.

I think a lot of you are overlooking the over playjng of sides,it’s got to ludicrous levels now of playing the same side week in,week out.

Get rid of loop fixtures for starters expand the company to 14 teams then see where we go,the sport is on its knees and I’m not sure there’s a way back for it for some people

Also, isn’t it the oldest trick in the book to announce crowds lower than what’s there for testimonials so you don’t have to pay as much tax?

But other clubs have the same issue and their crowds are increasing?

https://www.rlfans.com/

Very difficult to argue with any of that.
If I'm honest I will be surprised if we have maintained ST levels per 2019 as although we finished quite strongly the early part of the year was pretty disastrous even allowing for the level of injuries and more people are dissatisfied with the quality of the game and the lack of atmosphere at any game at the DW.
Ive been a ST for years but even I have thought about "not bothering" and in 2016 & 2017 I actually gave my ST away part way through both seasons as the quality of the game week in week out was in my view downright abysmal.

The club and the game have got to come up with some new initiatives and maybe resurrect some old ones otherwise as you suggest the game will not survive in its present state.

For me we have to concentrate on new younger fans and making it easier for "roll up fans" to pay on the night.
The free ST for kids under 8 is a great start but we need other sustained targeted marketing on U18 fans e.g. SBW and the Toronto game. For me there should major marketing of this game with incentives for kids/families. We should have been saturating local schools on this forthcoming match to encourage kids to come and see SBW as soon as we knew he had signed for Toronto. The club's & the games lack of marketing is palpable at all times.

I'm obviously not a marketing guy but I'm a guy who knows that the club and the game in general is in severe need of re-branding. Personally I hate the "Warriors" and would abandon it however, if that is the way forward let's do properly or not at all. Very left field should we become Warriors and drop Wigan??

I buy a season ticket partly out of habit, partly because I can afford it and if I'm honest if I had pay on the night or buy a ticket in advance I know that I just wouldn't do it. To go to the North Stand queue up for ages to then walk back to the South stand just doesnt work for me. We need more pay by cash turnstiles and contactless payment turnstiles. We have got to make it easier for fans to have quick and easy access to the stadium.

The game has become too slow and too predictable. Time wasting still continues and I could scream at the number of interchanges that just breeds not very athletic athletes and lazy coaching. The lack of intensity for me is palpable in every game including games against Saints.
The 7th tackle against the attacking team when kicking into dead is a start to reducing the number of lazy, robotic last tackle options however, why don't we give the defending side unlimited tackles after such kicks which I'm sure would reduce such last tackle options. As a sport historically we have been brave with new rules/changes and we need more if we are to re-invigorate the game in becoming more of a spectacle.

Better people than me will have better ideas however, we seem to be sleep walking into oblivion and unless the current malaise is addressed then like you I don't really see much of a future other than a slow painful death.

Will be interesting to see if Saints improve their attendances this season aside of the WCC.

Matty where can I access year on year attendances for all SL clubs? If you could advise a link it would be appreciated.

Every home game I went to last season in the South Stand I entered via a cash turnstile so I don't think that's really an issue anymore (not like the old days of having to get a ticket first).

I definitely think the last two games of last year had a huge negative impact on season ticket sales. A tonking from Saints and a miserable performance against Salford in front of next to no home spectators.

Quote ="Itchy Arsenal"Will be interesting to see if Saints improve their attendances this season aside of the WCC. Matty where can I access year on year attendances for all SL clubs? If you could advise a link it would be appreciated.'" I'm gonna have to eat my own words as I've just done some digging on 2018 attendances (compared to the year before) and found that only two clubs increased during this time: Saints & Hull. I must admit I thought Wire & Cas had also shown increases but obviously not! https://www.cheshire-live.co.uk/sport/a ... n-15657897 2018 average attendances for this year's Super League teams (2017 figure in brackets) Leeds Rhinos 12,807 (14,950) Hull FC 12,174 (11,71icon_cool.gif Wigan Warriors 11,708 (13,983) St Helens 11,478 (10,749) Warrington Wolves 10,088 (10,47icon_cool.gif Catalans Dragons 8,353 (8,777) Hull KR 7,964 (NA) Castleford Tigers 7,898 (9,525) Huddersfield Giants 5,745 (5,826) Wakefield Trinity 5,244 (5,289) Salford Red Devils 2,748 (4,703) Will try find 2019 attendances.

Quote ="Itchy Arsenal"Will be interesting to see if Saints improve their attendances this season aside of the WCC. Matty where can I access year on year attendances for all SL clubs? If you could advise a link it would be appreciated.'" I'm gonna have to eat my own words as I've just done some digging on 2018 attendances (compared to the year before) and found that only two clubs increased during this time: Saints & Hull. I must admit I thought Wire & Cas had also shown increases but obviously not! https://www.cheshire-live.co.uk/sport/a ... n-15657897 2018 average attendances for this year's Super League teams (2017 figure in brackets) Leeds Rhinos 12,807 (14,950) Hull FC 12,174 (11,71icon_cool.gif Wigan Warriors 11,708 (13,983) St Helens 11,478 (10,749) Warrington Wolves 10,088 (10,47icon_cool.gif Catalans Dragons 8,353 (8,777) Hull KR 7,964 (NA) Castleford Tigers 7,898 (9,525) Huddersfield Giants 5,745 (5,826) Wakefield Trinity 5,244 (5,289) Salford Red Devils 2,748 (4,703) Will try find 2019 attendances.

Quote ="MattyB"I'm gonna have to eat my own words as I've just done some digging on 2018 attendances (compared to the year before) and found that only two clubs increased during this time: Saints & Hull. I must admit I thought Wire & Cas had also shown increases but obviously not! https://www.cheshire-live.co.uk/sport/a ... n-15657897 2018 average attendances for this year's Super League teams (2017 figure in brackets) Leeds Rhinos 12,807 (14,950) Hull FC 12,174 (11,71icon_cool.gif Wigan Warriors 11,708 (13,983) St Helens 11,478 (10,749) Warrington Wolves 10,088 (10,47icon_cool.gif Catalans Dragons 8,353 (8,777) Hull KR 7,964 (NA) Castleford Tigers 7,898 (9,525) Huddersfield Giants 5,745 (5,826) Wakefield Trinity 5,244 (5,289) Salford Red Devils 2,748 (4,703) Will try find 2019 attendances.'" Cheers Matty

Quote ="MattyB"I'm gonna have to eat my own words as I've just done some digging on 2018 attendances (compared to the year before) and found that only two clubs increased during this time: Saints & Hull. I must admit I thought Wire & Cas had also shown increases but obviously not! https://www.cheshire-live.co.uk/sport/a ... n-15657897 2018 average attendances for this year's Super League teams (2017 figure in brackets) Leeds Rhinos 12,807 (14,950) Hull FC 12,174 (11,71icon_cool.gif Wigan Warriors 11,708 (13,983) St Helens 11,478 (10,749) Warrington Wolves 10,088 (10,47icon_cool.gif Catalans Dragons 8,353 (8,777) Hull KR 7,964 (NA) Castleford Tigers 7,898 (9,525) Huddersfield Giants 5,745 (5,826) Wakefield Trinity 5,244 (5,289) Salford Red Devils 2,748 (4,703) Will try find 2019 attendances.'" Cheers Matty

Quote ="Itchy Arsenal"Cheers Matty'" Found them! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_League_XXIV 2019 average attendances Cas 7253 (789icon_cool.gif down Catalans 10560 (8353) up Hudds 5222 (5745) down Hull FC 11478 (12174) down Hull KR 8185 (7964) up Leeds 11838 (12807) down London 2021 NA Salford 3676 (274icon_cool.gif up Saints 11910 (1147icon_cool.gif up Wakefield 5468 (5244) up Wire 10970 (1008icon_cool.gif up Wigan 11432 (1170icon_cool.gif down We have slipped to fourth with Leeds, Saints and Hull ahead. Six teams show attendance increases - Catalans, Hull KR, Salford, Saints, Wakefield and Wire.

Quote ="Itchy Arsenal"Cheers Matty'" Found them! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_League_XXIV 2019 average attendances Cas 7253 (789icon_cool.gif down Catalans 10560 (8353) up Hudds 5222 (5745) down Hull FC 11478 (12174) down Hull KR 8185 (7964) up Leeds 11838 (12807) down London 2021 NA Salford 3676 (274icon_cool.gif up Saints 11910 (1147icon_cool.gif up Wakefield 5468 (5244) up Wire 10970 (1008icon_cool.gif up Wigan 11432 (1170icon_cool.gif down We have slipped to fourth with Leeds, Saints and Hull ahead. Six teams show attendance increases - Catalans, Hull KR, Salford, Saints, Wakefield and Wire.

Quote ="MattyB"Found them! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_League_XXIV 2019 average attendances Cas 7253 (789icon_cool.gif down Catalans 10560 (8353) up Hudds 5222 (5745) down Hull FC 11478 (12174) down Hull KR 8185 (7964) up Leeds 11838 (12807) down London 2021 NA Salford 3676 (274icon_cool.gif up Saints 11910 (1147icon_cool.gif up Wakefield 5468 (5244) up Wire 10970 (1008icon_cool.gif up Wigan 11432 (1170icon_cool.gif down We have slipped to fourth with Leeds, Saints and Hull ahead. Six teams show attendance increases - Catalans, Hull KR, Salford, Saints, Wakefield and Wire.'" Weirdly despite all the doom and gloom, had we increased our attendances by a mere 500 spectators last year we would have topped the group (including the all conquering, all entertaining, it's gone wide to West, never write off St Helens).

Quote ="MattyB"Found them! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_League_XXIV 2019 average attendances Cas 7253 (789icon_cool.gif down Catalans 10560 (8353) up Hudds 5222 (5745) down Hull FC 11478 (12174) down Hull KR 8185 (7964) up Leeds 11838 (12807) down London 2021 NA Salford 3676 (274icon_cool.gif up Saints 11910 (1147icon_cool.gif up Wakefield 5468 (5244) up Wire 10970 (1008icon_cool.gif up Wigan 11432 (1170icon_cool.gif down We have slipped to fourth with Leeds, Saints and Hull ahead. Six teams show attendance increases - Catalans, Hull KR, Salford, Saints, Wakefield and Wire.'" Weirdly despite all the doom and gloom, had we increased our attendances by a mere 500 spectators last year we would have topped the group (including the all conquering, all entertaining, it's gone wide to West, never write off St Helens).

And they had 2 home derbies to our 1
Switch that about and there would be nothing in it

It's still not good though, we should, after 10 years of Very Good success (and I appreciate people will view it in different ways) be looking IMO to be around 13k plus as a year in year out average.
Remember at the start of last year there were lots of people all over sites telling us that the rugby was boring, Wane had to go, as if that was the answer to the gates issue.
They set up the deal with Lam and Edward's and there was this positivity around the place (not by everyone but a large percantage) and guess what, crowds went down.

Potentially this year, investing in 2/3 top names to add to the late addition of French last year, and what do we think will happen? All those that wanted star names and leneghan to take his hands out of his pockets etc as that will be the answer, do you think it will suddenly increase by 2k a game average?
Me personally, No.

And they get the luxury of two home games again this season too.

Recovering 2k lost supporters is going to be a hard slog. To be honest chances are the same 2k will probably never return and it's for the club to attract 2k new supporters (young fans coming of age).

I remember when my two lads played at Judes, when they start off young all the parents are there at training sessions and matches. New friendships through coaches and parents are formed (some of my best friends that I still see today we met this way).

The kids socialise and get season tickets together and so do the parents. At one point (around 2012) there was over thirty parents and kids all sat together in the South Stand. It was a great weekly social occasion.

Guess what happened, the kids got older. Some dropped away from playing, the parents started to fall away from watching the kids at training and games, would pick and choose the big Wigan games, then it became just the finals, then finally stopped all together. Last season the count went from thirty of us in 2012 to five.

But its cyclical, at all amateur clubs today new kids are playing, parents show up in droves and socialise. This social group is one where Wigan should be targeting.

According to a police officer who I knew and on duty that night, it was estimated by the police that there were 43,000 inside the ground, as a result of the Police Inspector in charge deciding, when the official figure of 36,895 was reached with hundreds still outside, he made a decision to allow everyone in, rather than have any trouble and a possible storming of the ground, as many had come from around the North of England and beyond, which included many who been drinking well before the game. As the club did not expect the crowd to be so high, it was not made a all ticket game except for seating.

It must be remembered that at the time, there were not the same level of thinking by the police about control of mass crowds at sporting venues as there has been since Hillsborough.

I hate to think what it was like when the ground held a record attendance of 47,747 for a game with St Helens in 1959.

Evidently, many of today's supporters were not around when games in the Floodlit Trophy, Lancashire Cup, Challenge Cup Replays were played on Tuesday and Wednesday nights at a time when the game played in Winter and in front of far bigger crowds than what we get today.

Wigan not getting a game in World Cup as not helped as in my opinion, the decision has made many wigan supporters think that the RFL are against the club.

When we played at Central Park, we got numerous special games like Challenge Cup Semi Finals, Internationals, County and Amateur Finals, Schoolboy Finals, County Games, Internationals and even the Final of the local Ken Gee Cup Competition.

All gone as a result of Wigan Council not helping the club in the mid nighties and choosing instead to support Dave Whelan and his joint stadium white elephant which is now owned by the Latic's.

And people wonder why there is no longer in Wigan, the same interest in our game, irrespective of other interests or work commitments.

Come back Maurice Lindsay, a Chairman who knew how to create interest in supporters!

Times have changed dramatically since then though, even though they weren’t that long ago.

Social tendencies, habits have changed. Back in the times you’re talking about Wigan (and RL in general) weren’t on TV that much. Some people didn’t have TV’s so the only way to watch Wigan was to go.

My first choice is always to go if I can irrelevant of whether it’s on TV. I’m just about from the era that went to games as there was no other way than the Sky era. The same can’t be said for everyone though and as much as Sky has done wonders for the game, it also makes it easier not to go.

But then I look at clubs where ST and ticket sales are up and that argument falls apart.

ST sales may have stagnated on the back of last year which if we’re being honest we were bloody lucky to get to where we did. Some fans are not sold on Lam, concerned that their hard earned money will be spent on a ST and they’ll stop going half way through because the quality is poor. That’s just one “excuse” I can think of. I’m pretty sure there are hundreds more.

My concern now is what does the club do about it? I genuinely don’t know. We’ve tried different things; Big One, games on the road, marquee signings and it doesn’t seem to be working. I remember when I was in school and Latics were in the old Div 2. They used to send free tickets to home games every time they played at home and we used to go because it was free. A few of my mates then became Latics fans leaving behind the Utd’s, Liverpool’s and Everton’s of this world and are now ST holders and have been for years (I stayed loyal to Liverpool

). Perhaps it’s time we did that as a club. Sent free tickets to the high schools in the borough. Even be cheeky and send them out of borough too. Speculating to accumulate future fans.