Glad it's out in the open and we can now all say thanks to Sam for all the memories he leaves us with. Lets make sure he has a standing ovation on Friday for the service he has given the club. He deserves that I feel.

I bet you didn't say that when Sam signed his extended contract. I bet "Ian" was toast of the dubairl household having secured Sam's services and prevented him from speaking to RU or NRL clubs for the next three years.

Is it really necessary to re-post this link:

[urlhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/15625039[/url



It had enough pull when the deal was signed for "Ian" to state Sam was prevented from speaking to RU and NRL clubs for three years, which he clearly wasn't. If "ian" was going to cave in as soon as the player wanted to leave he shouldn't say he's signed a contract with the player such that it prevents players from talking to other clubs in the first place should he? Why do that if it's impossible to enforce or you have no intention of doing so? It's not just the contract that is worthless there is it!

We have been misled. It is as simple as that.

You stated that I 'clearly said' that the chairman is going to use the £450,000 the club received for Sam "to make himself richer"

You have once again failed to show me where i have 'clearly' said this and you have shot your fat premature again.

Saying "We are going to make Mr Lenegan richer than he already is" is hardly libel since at no point did i point towards him stealing the money or pocketing it as you put it! They are your words not mine!

Since you seem a bit slow on the uptake ill explain it for you. If he decides to spend it on investing in another building for example. Suddenly the club becomes worth more money if he decides to sell it. If he spends the money on a transfer fee for playing staff its pretty much dead money that the club will never see again.

And for the record i did not ask you 'Well where [uelse[/u is the money going? I asked you 'where is the money going to go. This is a simple question as it cant be spent on players wages. You added the 'else' to my sentence just to try and make yourself look clever didn't you?

Cruncher, i hope Mr Lenegan releases an autobiography as it will make you the happiest happy clapper in the world. You can read it before you fall asleep and the second you open your eyes in the morning to get your Mr Lenegan fix FFS!!

I think you should leave it at that as you have derailed the thread enough now by trying to say i have said things that i have not. If you wish to carry on please pm me. Many thanks.

What an unpleasant thread.... But, i suppose, if you regurgitate bitterness often enough, it will eventually become pure bile...

Ahhh ... so when you so irritably said that he would use the transfer money to make himself richer, what you actually meant was he's going to invest it in new buildings, facilities, etc ... in other words make improvements to the club that won't be restricted by the salary cap.

As I see it, there are two reasons why you didn't say that before.

a) It wouldn't have made him look as much like a villain.

or

b) You didn't mean it that way at all.

I may be against you on the Bowen thread but I agree with you here. We have been misled as far as Sam is concerned.

Competition time !!

whoop whoop

Are Wigan fans on the whole quite positive or quite negative?

Currently we have a

1 - Bowen has signed" thread

and

2 - Sam has departed" thread

I wonder which will run the longest?

I don't think IL has lied or misled us at all.

We all know Dean Bell and another Exec from the NZW were over here earlier in the year. I'm pretty sure they said they had a "shopping list" of players in whom they were interested. Sam was top of their list, the remainder probably weren't wanted if they got their top man.

Sam or his agent couldn't approach the NZW people, NZW couldn't approach Sam without the club's permission. Maybe, I don't know, NZW approached Sam/Agent without the club's permission. An unofficial approach or tapping up!
If, after an unofficial conversation, Sam's head was turned by the prospect of the NRL + Salary and then he told IL he wanted to go and where to and didn't want to play for the club from 2014 on, what could IL do about it?
Two choices, let him go and get the best possible deal he can or, tell Sam he's going nowhere and has to play for Wigan. Nothing like having your most expensive player totally turned off, not wanting to play for you and on your books.
IMO IL had no choice but to get the best possible deal, which he may have, and sign the best replacement available which he appears to have done.

Not ideal, it's pretty awful really but this is a RL Sport problem. We now can't keep our best players.
IL is getting slated for calling Bowen a "marquee" player. That description, I don't think, is meant for us Wigan fans at all. It's meant for the knuckledraggers and deadbeats who've voted down a salary cap exemption for each club's "marquee" player. They are the ones who are prepared to see our presence in the Captial disappear and open Catalans to the possibilty of relegation.

We used to talk about a vision for expansion and a strategy to acheive it.
Now they are going headlong into shrinkage and have voted for the strategy to acheive it.

All in all, a bloody awful day day for British Rugby League.

IL made a point of stressing that there was a cast iron guarantee that Tomkins would not speak to NRL or union clubs until pre 2015. What is disappointing for me is that IL hasn't acknowledged that he has broken his word on that. Its almost as if he's hoping Wigan fans won't remember that.

Wasn't IL one of those who voted in favour of the current CC level?

And I remember laughing to myself when he said this.

As I said, he took the praise (off some people on here) when he came out with this.

I notice those people are either not commenting (probably for the best), or coming out with comments that do not address this issue.

"Well what was he supposed to do?"

"Well he made the best out of a bad situation"

etc etc

NOT the point.

Think we need to stop arguing amongst ourselves here and concentrate our efforts into getting some answers... So IL has a few questions to answer.... 1. Tomkins signed a 5year deal in Nov 2011 that stopped him SPEAKING to ANY club for 3 years. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/15625039 In Sept 2013 he has SIGNED for NZ Warriors. How and why has that happened?? 2. Why have you announced this 4 days before the most important game if the year?? 3. What do you propose to do with the reported £1M the club has made in transfer fees this year?? The excitement of Fridays clash with Leeds has completely left me as I'm more concerned with the state of the club long term rather than short term gains.

Think we need to stop arguing amongst ourselves here and concentrate our efforts into getting some answers... So IL has a few questions to answer.... 1. Tomkins signed a 5year deal in Nov 2011 that stopped him SPEAKING to ANY club for 3 years. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/15625039 In Sept 2013 he has SIGNED for NZ Warriors. How and why has that happened?? 2. Why have you announced this 4 days before the most important game if the year?? 3. What do you propose to do with the reported £1M the club has made in transfer fees this year?? The excitement of Fridays clash with Leeds has completely left me as I'm more concerned with the state of the club long term rather than short term gains.

Quote ="Owdpopularsider"Think we need to stop arguing amongst ourselves here and concentrate our efforts into getting some answers... So IL has a few questions to answer.... 1. Tomkins signed a 5year deal in Nov 2011 that stopped him SPEAKING to ANY club for 3 years. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/15625039 In Sept 2013 he has SIGNED for NZ Warriors. How and why has that happened?? 2. Why have you announced this 4 days before the most important game if the year?? 3. What do you propose to do with the reported £1M the club has made in transfer fees this year?? The excitement of Fridays clash with Leeds has completely left me as I'm more concerned with the state of the club long term rather than short term gains.'" A good summary. My view of the HONEST answers from IL would be 1. This was never enforceable. I should never have gloated about it, nor classified it as an astute bit of business on my part. I now look like a plonker. 2. I want to maximise the ticket sales for Friday and the chance of seeing the best player in the last decade play in potentially his last game for Wigan will provide that. 3. Well we are investing in long term development, infrastructure, scouts, youth development.... you know, all the stuff that we wouldn't be investing in were it not for these windfalls.......er hang on..........no not that.......er.......

Quote ="Owdpopularsider"Think we need to stop arguing amongst ourselves here and concentrate our efforts into getting some answers... So IL has a few questions to answer.... 1. Tomkins signed a 5year deal in Nov 2011 that stopped him SPEAKING to ANY club for 3 years. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/15625039 In Sept 2013 he has SIGNED for NZ Warriors. How and why has that happened?? 2. Why have you announced this 4 days before the most important game if the year?? 3. What do you propose to do with the reported £1M the club has made in transfer fees this year?? The excitement of Fridays clash with Leeds has completely left me as I'm more concerned with the state of the club long term rather than short term gains.'" A good summary. My view of the HONEST answers from IL would be 1. This was never enforceable. I should never have gloated about it, nor classified it as an astute bit of business on my part. I now look like a plonker. 2. I want to maximise the ticket sales for Friday and the chance of seeing the best player in the last decade play in potentially his last game for Wigan will provide that. 3. Well we are investing in long term development, infrastructure, scouts, youth development.... you know, all the stuff that we wouldn't be investing in were it not for these windfalls.......er hang on..........no not that.......er.......

Very much so. And bragged about it!

According to the Manchester Evening News, he was almost at 'loggerheads' with Marwan Koukash of Salford who vowed to break the salary cap.

Quote ="Owdpopularsider"Think we need to stop arguing amongst ourselves here and concentrate our efforts into getting some answers... So IL has a few questions to answer.... 1. Tomkins signed a 5year deal in Nov 2011 that stopped him SPEAKING to ANY club for 3 years. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/15625039 In Sept 2013 he has SIGNED for NZ Warriors. How and why has that happened?? 2. Why have you announced this 4 days before the most important game if the year?? 3. What do you propose to do with the reported £1M the club has made in transfer fees this year?? The excitement of Fridays clash with Leeds has completely left me as I'm more concerned with the state of the club long term rather than short term gains.'" [iThe new contract, extended by a further 12 months, includes a clause which means that the England full-back cannot speak to either rugby union or Australian NRL clubs for three years. [/i I didn't even realise that the clause meant he couldn't speak to NRL clubs either. I thought it was just for RU clubs. This makes todays news even worse. We have lost the best player in Super League 2 years into a 5 year contract a year before he was supposed to even speak to an NRL club.

Quote ="Owdpopularsider"Think we need to stop arguing amongst ourselves here and concentrate our efforts into getting some answers... So IL has a few questions to answer.... 1. Tomkins signed a 5year deal in Nov 2011 that stopped him SPEAKING to ANY club for 3 years. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/15625039 In Sept 2013 he has SIGNED for NZ Warriors. How and why has that happened?? 2. Why have you announced this 4 days before the most important game if the year?? 3. What do you propose to do with the reported £1M the club has made in transfer fees this year?? The excitement of Fridays clash with Leeds has completely left me as I'm more concerned with the state of the club long term rather than short term gains.'" [iThe new contract, extended by a further 12 months, includes a clause which means that the England full-back cannot speak to either rugby union or Australian NRL clubs for three years. [/i I didn't even realise that the clause meant he couldn't speak to NRL clubs either. I thought it was just for RU clubs. This makes todays news even worse. We have lost the best player in Super League 2 years into a 5 year contract a year before he was supposed to even speak to an NRL club.

+1

The contract Sam signed was a good one. It meant we got three years out of him AND a transfer fee. To only get two years is poor form from all parties.

So, in view of the fact that Sam has broken the terms of his contract, is it not a good thing that the management have taken decisive action, and sold a player who clearly does not wish to play for the club...

Agree with your sentiments .... the trouble is I cannot remember my enthusiasm for RL being so low.

There's little incentive to buy a season ticket as it is today with the league becoming nothing short of a farce but this continual talent drain has to impact on future attendances and the overall profile of the game in the country.

Speaking to one of the clubs higher profile sponsors the other day he said he was not renewing his sponsorship next season ... as far as he's concerned RL is finished in this country. Not necessarily my views but worrying when sponsors have that perception of the sport !

Do you know this as a fact? If not watch out or you could end up in court



What if Sam hasn't broken any contract but NZW approached Mr Lenegan and asked if he would be willing to sell Sam? Who is to say Sam wouldn't of carried on next year and stuck to the contract and it wasn't Mr Lenegan who approached Sam to see if he would be interested in going to NZW and Sam just brought forward his plans a year early?

Me too. RL is in the worst state since the late 70s/early 80s and this time we have pro RU and the NRL to contend with.

How long before RL goes semi-pro in this country?

All very predictable. Where are the pro SC muppets now?

Lets all have a party on Friday to celebrate . Hopefully Grand Final qualification, and the 8 loyal years Pat Richards gave to us .



Regards , EW

IL misled us over the terms of the contract. There is no way a 3 year restraint of trade (not being able to talk to NRL and RU clubs) was lawful, it was nothing more than a gentleman's agreement. The same goes for the deals for Mossop etc. with us having first refusal of their services when they return, not enforceable by law, simply a gentleman's agreement, that I hope comes to fruition.

IL has been made to look a mug by bigging up a basically worthless contract.

The Harris / Bradford / Leeds court case shows they are enforceable.

I think a world record transfer fee disputes that sentiment.

There's an awful lot of hot air on this one - we had a player, under contract who wanted to leave, and another club paid a significant transfer fee to us in order to sign him. It's not that unusual.