then you alienate a player and prevent him from earning the maximum he could and that would be a black mark against this club when it comes to trying to negotiate deals with other players. And somehow i don't believe new zealand warriors would pay anything if he was off contract next season.

This is symptomatic of a worrying trend in SL. It has always been the case that the richer or "bigger" clubs like Wigan have been able to attract talent from the smaller and poorer clubs in SL. With the current disparity in the salary cap between the northern and southern hemispheres, it is now the case that the NRL can pretty much take their pick of British talent. Beyond the limits the NRL clubs desire to cream off our best players, it could be that only sentiment or family ties will dissuade players from moving south.

I suggest you read back through the thread and you will see i did not say that at all.

Don't make yourself look as silly as Cruncher!

I said that by investing it off the field increases the clubs value when he comes to sell it.

We are going around in circles here. You agree with letting our best players leave early and i don't. Who knows when his contract was up next year on in 3 years? As far as im aware its another 3 years until his contract was up but he wasn't allowed to speak to RU clubs in the first 3 years out of the total 5.

He signed a five year contract with an agreement he could talk to interested parties after three years I doubt anyone held a gun to his head to make him sign, so not sure how NZW would have paid no fee next year !!

Ian, sorry Dubairl, you really must read the post before replying with nonsense. It's not even Friday or Saturday after a few beers.

Where did I say "Ian" had not invested? Where did I say he would get "excited"?

I presented the options.

[i'Exactly. We have bucket loads of cash. So what are we going to do with it since the salary cap stops us using it for players wages? We are going to make Mr Lenegan richer than he already is!'[/i

You're own post on this thread, at 3.32pm today.

I don't know where the money will be spent - you know why?, because I'm not part of the Wigan management team. But just because I don't know, that mean doesn't the chairman is going pocket it, FFS!

If you're going to prove you didn't libel the guy, you're going to have to do an awful lot better than offer 'Well where else is it going?' as your sole argument of defence.

True up to a point; the main advantage I see in the return ticket clause is that it stops him going to one of our rivals if/when he does come back to SL.

Glad it's out in the open and we can now all say thanks to Sam for all the memories he leaves us with. Lets make sure he has a standing ovation on Friday for the service he has given the club. He deserves that I feel.

I bet you didn't say that when Sam signed his extended contract. I bet "Ian" was toast of the dubairl household having secured Sam's services and prevented him from speaking to RU or NRL clubs for the next three years.

Is it really necessary to re-post this link:

[urlhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/15625039[/url



It had enough pull when the deal was signed for "Ian" to state Sam was prevented from speaking to RU and NRL clubs for three years, which he clearly wasn't. If "ian" was going to cave in as soon as the player wanted to leave he shouldn't say he's signed a contract with the player such that it prevents players from talking to other clubs in the first place should he? Why do that if it's impossible to enforce or you have no intention of doing so? It's not just the contract that is worthless there is it!

We have been misled. It is as simple as that.

You stated that I 'clearly said' that the chairman is going to use the £450,000 the club received for Sam "to make himself richer"

You have once again failed to show me where i have 'clearly' said this and you have shot your fat premature again.

Saying "We are going to make Mr Lenegan richer than he already is" is hardly libel since at no point did i point towards him stealing the money or pocketing it as you put it! They are your words not mine!

Since you seem a bit slow on the uptake ill explain it for you. If he decides to spend it on investing in another building for example. Suddenly the club becomes worth more money if he decides to sell it. If he spends the money on a transfer fee for playing staff its pretty much dead money that the club will never see again.

And for the record i did not ask you 'Well where [uelse[/u is the money going? I asked you 'where is the money going to go. This is a simple question as it cant be spent on players wages. You added the 'else' to my sentence just to try and make yourself look clever didn't you?

Cruncher, i hope Mr Lenegan releases an autobiography as it will make you the happiest happy clapper in the world. You can read it before you fall asleep and the second you open your eyes in the morning to get your Mr Lenegan fix FFS!!

I think you should leave it at that as you have derailed the thread enough now by trying to say i have said things that i have not. If you wish to carry on please pm me. Many thanks.

What an unpleasant thread.... But, i suppose, if you regurgitate bitterness often enough, it will eventually become pure bile...

Ahhh ... so when you so irritably said that he would use the transfer money to make himself richer, what you actually meant was he's going to invest it in new buildings, facilities, etc ... in other words make improvements to the club that won't be restricted by the salary cap.

As I see it, there are two reasons why you didn't say that before.

a) It wouldn't have made him look as much like a villain.

or

b) You didn't mean it that way at all.

I may be against you on the Bowen thread but I agree with you here. We have been misled as far as Sam is concerned.

Competition time !!

whoop whoop

Are Wigan fans on the whole quite positive or quite negative?

Currently we have a

1 - Bowen has signed" thread

and

2 - Sam has departed" thread

I wonder which will run the longest?

I don't think IL has lied or misled us at all.

We all know Dean Bell and another Exec from the NZW were over here earlier in the year. I'm pretty sure they said they had a "shopping list" of players in whom they were interested. Sam was top of their list, the remainder probably weren't wanted if they got their top man.

Sam or his agent couldn't approach the NZW people, NZW couldn't approach Sam without the club's permission. Maybe, I don't know, NZW approached Sam/Agent without the club's permission. An unofficial approach or tapping up!
If, after an unofficial conversation, Sam's head was turned by the prospect of the NRL + Salary and then he told IL he wanted to go and where to and didn't want to play for the club from 2014 on, what could IL do about it?
Two choices, let him go and get the best possible deal he can or, tell Sam he's going nowhere and has to play for Wigan. Nothing like having your most expensive player totally turned off, not wanting to play for you and on your books.
IMO IL had no choice but to get the best possible deal, which he may have, and sign the best replacement available which he appears to have done.

Not ideal, it's pretty awful really but this is a RL Sport problem. We now can't keep our best players.
IL is getting slated for calling Bowen a "marquee" player. That description, I don't think, is meant for us Wigan fans at all. It's meant for the knuckledraggers and deadbeats who've voted down a salary cap exemption for each club's "marquee" player. They are the ones who are prepared to see our presence in the Captial disappear and open Catalans to the possibilty of relegation.

We used to talk about a vision for expansion and a strategy to acheive it.
Now they are going headlong into shrinkage and have voted for the strategy to acheive it.

All in all, a bloody awful day day for British Rugby League.

IL made a point of stressing that there was a cast iron guarantee that Tomkins would not speak to NRL or union clubs until pre 2015. What is disappointing for me is that IL hasn't acknowledged that he has broken his word on that. Its almost as if he's hoping Wigan fans won't remember that.

Wasn't IL one of those who voted in favour of the current CC level?

And I remember laughing to myself when he said this.

As I said, he took the praise (off some people on here) when he came out with this.

I notice those people are either not commenting (probably for the best), or coming out with comments that do not address this issue.

"Well what was he supposed to do?"

"Well he made the best out of a bad situation"

etc etc

NOT the point.

Think we need to stop arguing amongst ourselves here and concentrate our efforts into getting some answers... So IL has a few questions to answer.... 1. Tomkins signed a 5year deal in Nov 2011 that stopped him SPEAKING to ANY club for 3 years. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/15625039 In Sept 2013 he has SIGNED for NZ Warriors. How and why has that happened?? 2. Why have you announced this 4 days before the most important game if the year?? 3. What do you propose to do with the reported £1M the club has made in transfer fees this year?? The excitement of Fridays clash with Leeds has completely left me as I'm more concerned with the state of the club long term rather than short term gains.

Think we need to stop arguing amongst ourselves here and concentrate our efforts into getting some answers... So IL has a few questions to answer.... 1. Tomkins signed a 5year deal in Nov 2011 that stopped him SPEAKING to ANY club for 3 years. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/15625039 In Sept 2013 he has SIGNED for NZ Warriors. How and why has that happened?? 2. Why have you announced this 4 days before the most important game if the year?? 3. What do you propose to do with the reported £1M the club has made in transfer fees this year?? The excitement of Fridays clash with Leeds has completely left me as I'm more concerned with the state of the club long term rather than short term gains.

Quote ="Owdpopularsider"Think we need to stop arguing amongst ourselves here and concentrate our efforts into getting some answers... So IL has a few questions to answer.... 1. Tomkins signed a 5year deal in Nov 2011 that stopped him SPEAKING to ANY club for 3 years. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/15625039 In Sept 2013 he has SIGNED for NZ Warriors. How and why has that happened?? 2. Why have you announced this 4 days before the most important game if the year?? 3. What do you propose to do with the reported £1M the club has made in transfer fees this year?? The excitement of Fridays clash with Leeds has completely left me as I'm more concerned with the state of the club long term rather than short term gains.'" A good summary. My view of the HONEST answers from IL would be 1. This was never enforceable. I should never have gloated about it, nor classified it as an astute bit of business on my part. I now look like a plonker. 2. I want to maximise the ticket sales for Friday and the chance of seeing the best player in the last decade play in potentially his last game for Wigan will provide that. 3. Well we are investing in long term development, infrastructure, scouts, youth development.... you know, all the stuff that we wouldn't be investing in were it not for these windfalls.......er hang on..........no not that.......er.......

Quote ="Owdpopularsider"Think we need to stop arguing amongst ourselves here and concentrate our efforts into getting some answers... So IL has a few questions to answer.... 1. Tomkins signed a 5year deal in Nov 2011 that stopped him SPEAKING to ANY club for 3 years. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/15625039 In Sept 2013 he has SIGNED for NZ Warriors. How and why has that happened?? 2. Why have you announced this 4 days before the most important game if the year?? 3. What do you propose to do with the reported £1M the club has made in transfer fees this year?? The excitement of Fridays clash with Leeds has completely left me as I'm more concerned with the state of the club long term rather than short term gains.'" A good summary. My view of the HONEST answers from IL would be 1. This was never enforceable. I should never have gloated about it, nor classified it as an astute bit of business on my part. I now look like a plonker. 2. I want to maximise the ticket sales for Friday and the chance of seeing the best player in the last decade play in potentially his last game for Wigan will provide that. 3. Well we are investing in long term development, infrastructure, scouts, youth development.... you know, all the stuff that we wouldn't be investing in were it not for these windfalls.......er hang on..........no not that.......er.......

Very much so. And bragged about it!

According to the Manchester Evening News, he was almost at 'loggerheads' with Marwan Koukash of Salford who vowed to break the salary cap.

Quote ="Owdpopularsider"Think we need to stop arguing amongst ourselves here and concentrate our efforts into getting some answers... So IL has a few questions to answer.... 1. Tomkins signed a 5year deal in Nov 2011 that stopped him SPEAKING to ANY club for 3 years. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/15625039 In Sept 2013 he has SIGNED for NZ Warriors. How and why has that happened?? 2. Why have you announced this 4 days before the most important game if the year?? 3. What do you propose to do with the reported £1M the club has made in transfer fees this year?? The excitement of Fridays clash with Leeds has completely left me as I'm more concerned with the state of the club long term rather than short term gains.'" [iThe new contract, extended by a further 12 months, includes a clause which means that the England full-back cannot speak to either rugby union or Australian NRL clubs for three years. [/i I didn't even realise that the clause meant he couldn't speak to NRL clubs either. I thought it was just for RU clubs. This makes todays news even worse. We have lost the best player in Super League 2 years into a 5 year contract a year before he was supposed to even speak to an NRL club.

Quote ="Owdpopularsider"Think we need to stop arguing amongst ourselves here and concentrate our efforts into getting some answers... So IL has a few questions to answer.... 1. Tomkins signed a 5year deal in Nov 2011 that stopped him SPEAKING to ANY club for 3 years. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/15625039 In Sept 2013 he has SIGNED for NZ Warriors. How and why has that happened?? 2. Why have you announced this 4 days before the most important game if the year?? 3. What do you propose to do with the reported £1M the club has made in transfer fees this year?? The excitement of Fridays clash with Leeds has completely left me as I'm more concerned with the state of the club long term rather than short term gains.'" [iThe new contract, extended by a further 12 months, includes a clause which means that the England full-back cannot speak to either rugby union or Australian NRL clubs for three years. [/i I didn't even realise that the clause meant he couldn't speak to NRL clubs either. I thought it was just for RU clubs. This makes todays news even worse. We have lost the best player in Super League 2 years into a 5 year contract a year before he was supposed to even speak to an NRL club.

+1

The contract Sam signed was a good one. It meant we got three years out of him AND a transfer fee. To only get two years is poor form from all parties.

So, in view of the fact that Sam has broken the terms of his contract, is it not a good thing that the management have taken decisive action, and sold a player who clearly does not wish to play for the club...