Also they have reduced the number of club trained players in the 25 from eight to seven. If anything, to put pressure on clubs to produce more quality young players they should leave the number at eight and move from having eight in the squad of 25 to eight in the game seventeen.
Being compelled to have 8 club trained players in the 17 would force clubs to invest in their youth structure.
One odd one though, Wakefield with all their financial problems, have announced their U19s in 2014 will all go full time professional. Whether they have costed that I don't know but a full time U19s squad plus full time coaches and fitness people can't come cheap. I hope they are successful with it.

The thing is I can see the logic in trying to concentrate the best youth talent, it would mean they played at a higher level earlier and likely become better. The problem is that it is another thing that was only half followed through.

Yeah lets concentrate the best talent at the top 10 academies but someone somewhere needs to be thinking how the bloody hell we pick up the slack this creates just below that. It could be something as simple as providing funding and coaching and advice to the top amateur clubs and increasing quality there as well. Or having a secondary tier of academies where the demands aren’t quite as onerous but the best talent can be identified and moved up a level.

Its like someone has a good idea and everyone thinks it will solve all the problems. When it doesn’t we throw it all away and find a new silver bullet to solve all our problems, as if we have plenty of people at the top of the game who can think up some good ideas, but nobody who actually knows how to make a good idea work.

Its telling as to where we are right now with the game and the leadership is that after the RFL announce a hands off approach with everything decided on the pitch (as long as we have an SC to protect certain clubs from what happens on the pitch) we have seen an increase in overseas players allowed and teams like Cas have stopped pushing for a new stadium and are now holding a vote on what colour they should paint their decrepit ground.

Before you can be who you want to be you must first understand who and where you currently are

We need an elite and we need a pathway to that elite that excites the incumbent fans and attracts new ones

The gap between the top 4/6 and the rest is too great to call sl an elite comp and The gap between FT and pt is too great to find a pathway but we can find it if we want to providing we identify our goals and grow into them

Two tens is the right way but thrEe eights is better than we have, and we need change

Quote ="Fax Machine"Has Mr. Lenegan lost one of his supporters? www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/3451'" I don't think so either. It's a very carefully worded statement that tries to be as upbeat as possible. This part caught my eye. "It is also a great and opportune time to have a newly appointed RFL and Super League Chairman in Brian Barwick, whose highest level background in media and in professional sport can assist rugby league greatly in its strategic direction and commercial strengthening. He deserves our full and unqualified backing as we seek to strengthen for the benefit of all." Perhaps he sees Barwick as a progressive voice at the RFL who doesn't come with any baggage? Or it could be a public kick up the backside for an administrator who hasn't made any discernible mark on the sport since joining the RFL?

Quote ="Fax Machine"Has Mr. Lenegan lost one of his supporters? www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/3451'" I don't think so either. It's a very carefully worded statement that tries to be as upbeat as possible. This part caught my eye. "It is also a great and opportune time to have a newly appointed RFL and Super League Chairman in Brian Barwick, whose highest level background in media and in professional sport can assist rugby league greatly in its strategic direction and commercial strengthening. He deserves our full and unqualified backing as we seek to strengthen for the benefit of all." Perhaps he sees Barwick as a progressive voice at the RFL who doesn't come with any baggage? Or it could be a public kick up the backside for an administrator who hasn't made any discernible mark on the sport since joining the RFL?

Pm.....

I'd like to think the latter.

Ditto. As far as i can tell he doesn't seem to have done much since he joined...
Reg the league proposals IMO I think we don't have enough quality players or coaches to support 12 teams, never mind 14. I just don't see what keeping the league as 14 will solve. Supporters already think the regular season is a joke so we should concentrate the talent and the teams to get something like a 10 team league and perhaps a top 3 playoff.

It's painful, but i think we need to consign some clubs to the Championship short-term so we can preserve the game long-term... The players can then play fewer games and we can get a proper origin-esque series going during the season and more meaningful international series at the end of each season. I'm sure there are holes in my proposal as there are in virtually any you look at. There's no easy decision to be made which just goes to show how tough it's going to be pleasing everyone...

I know people are very passionate about the issue of the structure of the league but to me this just looks like arranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

The game is in a parlous state. Getting more revenue into the clubs and controlling their spending should be the priority for the next 5-10 years. If it can be shown that the new format would help clubs' finances then we should do it; otherwise it's just a distraction.

Give the guy a chance - he's only had 9 months or so...that's no time at all considering the mess he's inherited and the people he's working with.

The Northern Rail Cup has been cancelled and will not take place 2014.
The Train company as sponsors have gone too, obviously!
Was IL right or was he right!

So no sponsor means no competition? , lets not bother with the WC and SL then

I was going to type out another rant about Nigel Wood but I just can't be bothered. The guy is untouchable. He's slowly killing the game

Nothing slow about it

I have read all this thread and seen many times people saying its not possible to fund 24 or even 20 full time teams.

Teams shouldn't be reliant on funding. They shoud be funding themselves. Its poor that the chairman of Wigan, a team who have been a top team for so long should be so bothered about an extra 200k or so.

Superleague as been going long enough for teams to have built up a pot of cash and not be reliant on sky handouts. By now the sky money should be getting ploughed into youth development and building a sound infrastructure.

The RFLs marketing may be poor but so that of the SL teams, what are they doing to create their own revenue streams and be at least self sufficient.

My team Fev will be mainly full time next season and completely full time come 2015. They are just having a centre of excellence built which is better than anything at most superleague cubs, all without the millions from sky. We are well run and making huge strides on and off the field.

There are currently 2 fev lads in the England squad for the world cup and many more scattered around superleague, yet apparently we contribute nothing and don't deserve any of the sky money.

As been mentioned many times in the thread, nothing can survive without roots. Time SL took of the blinkers and look at the bigger picture, if you think every player in SL comes from the towns or cities of the SL clubs your fecking blind. Kill of the lower clubs and SL evetually will die too

Maybe rather than trying to drive a wedge in the sport, If IL and all other SL chairmen had come out and said the same as McManus then it may have caught the eye of potential sponsors and investors



Instead again rugby league hits the headlines for all the wrong reasons due to the self interest of a chairman whos team wont even be effected financially by the changes, hes just looking for power.

Who funded all these developments then? Your owner or the 1500 fans you have?

A combination of our owner and the 2500 + fans we get spending money in our own ground. Every penny a fan spends in our ground goes to Featherstone rovers. When complete POR will hold 9000 + fans. Wouldn't be the biggest ground in SL but the fact fev own the ground it doesn't need to be.

Rather than slate the fact we dont get loads at the moment why not actually give us some credit for the work we have done increasing crowds by more than 50% and having a biggest crowd of over 3000 last season. All in a league which is currently a cul de sac and not uncommon for the away team to bring a many as 20 fans.

You're right, WELL DONE

Fev Rovers have less claim on Tom Briscoe than Leeds do on Tom Burgess. Players in Fev will get picked up even without Fev Rovers because there is enough clubs in the area. If we need to have a club in Fev otherwise we miss out on everyone in Fev then we need to have an SL club in Pontefract, and garforth and Pudsey, and Rothwell, Mirfield and Denby Dale or we miss out on players there as well. We would need an SL club in every parish in the UK and need a super league of about 11k teams.

The achievements Fev have made are good achievements for Fev, they aren’t good achievements for an SL side. I don’t think Leeds nor Wigan have ever had an SL attendance as low as the capacity of Fev’s stadium. 3k attendance might set you apart at championship level, they make you go bust at SL level. Spending 300k on a centre of excellence may cause some feel good factor in Fev, but it’s some SL players salary. It isn’t a great sum, its not a figure which is going to propel Fev to the top of SL, its about 0.2% of what Leeds turnover.

This idea that Fev rovers are going to come in, compete in SL, and use the Sky money to ‘build up a pot of cash’ is frankly laughable. IF they ever get promoted they will make huge losses. You can’t put an SL team on the field, in front of 5k people (which is a fairly generous estimate) and make a profit we have seen clubs prove that time and time again. Ticket Sales on a 5k average totals less than a million pounds. Its just not feasible to run an SL side, paying SL wages on a ticket and TV turnover of about £2m.

But here is the hypocrisy of your argument, Fev want to be in SL because of self interest. They think it best for them so it should happen. Yet their fans are decrying SL chairmen and SL fans for being self-interested. Fev want to argue that they should earn their way to SL on merit, that everything should be decided on the field, by the best team you can put out. It shouldn’t matter if you can afford it, if you have the chairman willing to pay for it, go for it. Yet they only want to do that from a league with an Salary Cap set near what they can afford to a league where it is set near what they can afford. They don’t want the championship SC set at what Batley for instance, could afford to spend. They don’t want the championship Salary Cap set at Dewsbury rates that apparently would be unfair. They also don’t want the SC set at what Leeds could afford, or what Dr Koukash is willing to spend, because they couldn’t compete at that level. Do you not see the hypocrisy there? That what happens should be decided solely by what happens on the field, business plans, facilities and sustainability are irrelevant, everything needs to be decided by sporting contest. But Fev need the sides other clubs put on that field to be restricted because otherwise they couldn’t compete?

Do you actually think if you kill off all the other teams outside SL the amateur game will stay big enough to feed the SL. Would fev lions attract the young kids of Featherstone if there was no fev rovers. Most kids in fev will not go to rival towns to play rugby especially Castleford and theres no junior teams in Sharlston, Pontefract or knottingley anymore. its hard enough to get parents to take them to a team on their doorstep never mind travel further than the places mentioned. Briscoe may not have been a product of Fev rovers, but he was a Product of fev lions. If there was no lions he would now be playing amateur football on a Sunday morning. when at 13 and he had to choose between Rugby and football would he have chose to play in a different town or stay and play footy in fev with his mates

If you think fev, fax or Leigh's support would stay at the same level with promotion to the SL then your talking daft, I have no doubt the ground would max out many times in SL. Your 5k average I think is far too low. Our highest attendance of the season was actually just short of 3900 against Sheffield, one of the worst supported teams in the championship. They brought about 100 fans that day. Would the mighty Leeds only bring 20 fans to POR like Hunslet do. Fax support has dwindled due to the disillusionment of not being in SL for so long, they had a great following and im sure it would come back.

You also seem to ignore the importance of owning your own ground and having a big clubhouse. Besides no rent to pay and match days tickets food etc, fev earn cash throughout the week. Just the weekend mal maninga night sold out at £33, Billy pierce @ £22 sold out. I doubts everyone who turned up sat there without a drink. Regular fev forums pack out the club house which is open for every would cup game. Upcoming bon fire night will be a huge money spinner as thousands from all aroud the area usually turn up. many SL clubs don't have such revenue streams and as of your daft comparison with us, leeds and wigan, very few get massive crowds either. Maybe fev wouldn't compete financially with Wigan and Leeds but last time I checked there wasn't only 2 teams in SL

Spending 300k on a training facility may not be a record breaking figure but its more than many SL clubs have bothered to do. Fev know they cant go into SL and spend vast amounts of money that why they are looking to develop youth. Then instead of fev lads being scattered about SL they may be playing at fev.

Im not say Fev would enter SL and build up a big pot of cash but they are going in the right direction. Tell me after many years in SL how many teams are better of than when they first entered. Im not talking about playing in a new stadium while being riddled with debt.

Fev and fax have sorted themselves out in recent years financially and surviving on a shoe string, while some SL clubs continue to be mismanaged and waste sky handouts.

What on earth is McManus going on about?
He knows full well that fans don't like repeat SL games, so he's proposing to support the RFL in a change which will involve seven repeat games.
Whether the games will be competitive or not time will tell, will anyone be watching the repeat game after a couple of seasons or will fans be selecting game to see and those to miss? This will affect season ticket sales massively.
Perhaps McManus and Hetherington are to be appointed as the "season ticket sales prevention officers".

None of all this this has addressed the central issue which Ian lenegan raised which is the sport's main problem is a lack of revenue. The RFL have failed to get a SL sponsor, no sponsor for the World Cup. Is there a SL sponosr yet for next season?
Lets not forget these are the people that appointed Tony Smith to the England coaching job and he presided over the most embarrassing World Cup ever. They also appointed Steve McNamara following the disastrous job he did as Bradford coach.
We need new people at the top with a commercial background and proven success in corporate business. This is what Lenagan wants and he's right.
These forums are full of complaints that the game hasn't any money. Lenegan wants to put that right.
Re-structuring is irrelevant. This next one is just the latest. What will they propose in the next re-struring following this one? Who knows?
The RFL are taking us down a road going nowhere without any money to get there or anywhere else.

Its hardly Irrelevant is it. Maybe Mcmanus feels the game needs the restructuring to attract sponsorship. IL doesn't want to put more money into RL he want it to go into SL only. The RL want to help the game as a whole not just SL.

Nobody is killing any sides. Lets brush that myth away first of all.

Do I believe that the Featherstone area would continue to have a thriving amateur game if Fev Rovers stay as a lower league side? Yes. Many places, many which are bigger than Fev, have a thriving amateur scene but no SL side. If Fev need an SL side to continue having a thriving amateur scene do we need a new SL side based in Rothwell for instance? Why should we expect the people of Rothwell to travel to Cas, Leeds, Wakefield or Fev? Sharlston do have a team as do a multitude of towns and villages in West Yorks which aren’t also represented by a pro RL club.



Your stadium only currently holds 6750 max it out as many times as you like you are still aren’t getting an average much over 5k. There are 15k people in the village, Fev aren’t going to get 2/3rds of them attending every week. It may sound harsh to you but its simply true, getting 3.9k once is a hell of a lot different to getting 8/9k every week. Thinking that large swathes of supporters are going to travel to a fairly old stadium, in a small west Yorkshire village is nonsense.



You are trying to compete with clubs turning over 8 figure sums. Taking £3k in the bar when t’club put a turn on isn’t making a dent in that. It wouldn’t pay for the GPS systems used to aid player training, never mind the stats guy to collate and interpret the data, or the strength and conditioning coach to work with the nutritionist and physio putting it in to practice.

And no, there aren’t only two sides in SL, besides Leeds (who own a huge facility in an expensive area of Leeds, and another facility on the outskirts of the city centre, and a hotel, and have a 16-18k average, turnover about £13m) and Wigan (similar attendances, big merchandise operation, large modern facility) there is St Helens (own a brand spanking new facility, attendances about 6 times that of Fev) Hull (bigger attendances, Large modern facility) Warrington (same), Les Catalans (9k average, municipal support, apparently the best corporate and sponsorship take in SL) Hudds (own share of large modern stadium, big money backer, bigger attendances than Fev are ever likely to get) Salford (big money backer, huge market, great new facility).

Being better than London and a possibility of some stage in the future, with a fair wind and a bit of luck being on the level of Cas or Wakefield doesn’t make you an SL club. Cas, Wakefield and London are proving that for us.


If they want to develop youth then they need to be spending more than £300k a year on youth development, not a one off outlay.

3 things,

1 many clubs are better off now, in fact most are very much better off now than in 1995

2 It isn’t a Sky hand out, it is a payment for a product sold.

3 You said that clubs were wasting money and should be in a position now, with their years of being in SL to have built up a ‘big pot of cash’. Im telling you that is nonsense, Fev will lose money hand over fist, large amounts of it, if they ever were to be promoted to SL>

If the RFL wanted to help the game as a whole they would take the £2.5m they were going to give to the championship clubs to go full time and pay for 80 full time development officers to work with the amateur game, spreading that, and working with amateur coaching, improving that.

Im not talking about fevrovers as a lower league side, Im talking about them as having no team at all. If they arn't given ago in SL and it remains a closed shop what the point in carrying on. They are run well at the moment buy guys who want them in the top flight. if the door is left shut it would leave Featherstone in a real mess. but that will be ok at least we will still have a SL and Fev lions



Ground when finished will hold more than 9000 mostly all seated. Most fans dont have to travel very far. The small west yorkshire village you speak of is actually a town of almost 20000 people with a much bigger neighbor in Pontefract just a stones throw away. Im sure most people there know have heard of us. The community team also visit schools in Barnsley and surrounding areas, a big percentage of this years grouth in fans has come from the Barnsley area. End of the day I trust the BOD when they say they could survive financially in SL rather than you

they know how much the currently bring in on match days and how it would increase



A lot of that is already in place

you really have absolutely no idea. But were only a village in west yorkshire arnt we. It wouldn't be thought possible that rovers actually hold sessions with the coaches of fev lions trying to ensure that kids as young as 9 are getting the right nutrition etc to aid their development.



Salford backer will get fed up when no one turns up to watch them. Modern facility the fans didn't want (not there anyway). So you mention 8 teams, should SL be eight teams then. The new structure offers that in the latter part of the season and if your correct those teams will be in it. The others will be competing in meaningful games to keep their place in SL, if money talks and thats what its about then those bottom 4 teams will again be in SL next season, If fev, fax or leigh manage to displace one or two of them surly they deserve it. whats the harm in that its not going to effect the top 8 teams, they will be playing 7 games against the top SL teams and bigger attendances. For the odd team that does manage to finish in top four of proposed sl2, the next season they start in SL and get a bigger cut of sky money, better gates receipts, still dont finish in the top eight but this way they can grow steadily.

I dont see why fans of SL clubs should look down and us teams with such snobbery when where just trying to improve and have a crack at the higher level.



its a start, no one said anything about a one off outlay. Faisel has already pumped almost 1 million into the youth development and John Bastian isn't exactly a novice in this area.



well with all the 8 figure turn overs and huge merchandise sales you would have thought there would be something in the pot.

That principle applies the same to fev as it does to everyone else in the country. If we apply that principle to its conclusion we need an SL of 11k teams covering every parish in the nation


you argue against yourself here. If all these people will go watch fev, they will go watch Wakefield. You can't one hand argue that if Fev doesn't have a side nobody in fe will watch or play RL because they won't got to any of the multitude of clubs around them, but people from the towns around them as far away as Barnsley will watch And play. RL because of Fev

of course it is. Sponsorship from the local nightclub and a night with billy pierce pays for an awful lot in fev apparently.

lest we forget Faisal nahaboo's life long and unwavering love of West Yorkshire pit villages. and I'll point out your hypocrisy again. Fev can only compete on the pitch, and would only ever be any kind of position to replace anyone is because of a salary cap they need set to restrict what others put on the pitch.


Faisal has told you he has put 1m in to youth development. Never believe someone who runs a MLM company. If Mr Nahaboo is running the worlds first honest pyramid scheme and his promises re fev are true, then this new structure is entirely wrong for fev and the retention of licensing would be the ideal result for fev.