Dave0, put the document down mate, you won't sleep tonight and might even have an heart attack.



Makes perfect sense to me.

Can't unless you are Nigel Wood.

Yes but he did invent the most successful marketing theme ever - Halifax Blue Sox.

Edit - didn't read Faxcar's more thorough response.

I'm telling yer.

Autopsy report on Dave0.

"Death by Document".

The sheer exicitment of it all was just too much.

It's good that you're enjoying yourself. But I suspect the SL chairmen will have a different take on things.

Well, After this weekend i am even more convinced That Ian Leneghan is way ahead of the RFL,

The RFL should be setting the standards on how the game should be run and should be at the cutting edge of new initiatives ,methods and techniques within the game.

I can quite safely say that Wigan Warriors are at the very least 12months ahead of them especially on youth development and supporting amateur clubs

Just having some banter mate.

I just had this mental image of Dave0 doing an Inspector Dreyfuss with Woody as Clouseau.
(Don't mention the document)



It's out of our hands and it's only a game, if worse comes to worse I will watch Siddal just half a mile down the road.

Actually out of the SL teams I support Wigan because of the style of play going back over the years and to this day.

Well having read it all I can say is it is no wonder the SL chairmen object. It is an ill thought out set of proposals based on a shed load of assumptions.

Assumptions such as SL clubs being mismanaged is and indication licensing failed when they have no proof things would be any different under a different system.

So they then go on too assume because they conclude licensing has failed for this dubious reason we must have P&R back.

P&R is assumed to be essential for a healthy league as it brings back "jeopardy" when you only have to look to the healthiest RL competition in the world, the NRL, to see this is absolute rubbish.

They claim runing licensing meant the had to drop the ball in marketing the game, a claim which ought to cost Nigel Wood is job immediately.

There are still criteria for promotion mentioned so it's going to back to the "framing the future" days where the likes of Whitehaven refuse promotion or are denied it because of off field issues so its' not even a simple meritocracy as it's being sold as.

They also assume 2x12, 3x8 format will be more marketable with no evidence provided. Had they gone to a TV company with the proposal and come back with ££££m on the table maybe they would have a point but they haven't. They assume TV companies will want to buy into a competition that will still see sem-pro clubs playing fixtures in front of tiny crowds in poor facilities.

It ignores concerns we end up with 31 fixtures minimum before we even consider the cup.

I don't know how much time and money went into this but I wouldn't let this lot run a tiddlywinks league.

I understand that it's banter, but I honestly believe the game is at a crossroads. And I don't think the RFL have helped themselves with that document.

The game certainly is at a crossroads, in fact I suspect it may now be worse than this, it may be too late to avoid the game shrinking back to something more like the French domestic rugby league.

There should only be one objective to any review, because things are in dire shape - ensuring the financial growth and stability of the SL. Everything else should be secondary for the next 5-10 years. It needs to be solely about improving finances because we cannot go on like this.

The fact the RFL have not grasped the gravity of the situation is the most worrying thing. We could have a league soon in which only a handful of clubs - perhaps just Wigan, Leeds, Saints, Warrington and Hull - have any sort of financial strength. That just isn't sustainable, the whole house of cards will come tumbling down.

Could end up like the Aussie Super League War in 1997 with 2 seperate leagues being run!

A concern i have is the media perception and what is building slowly but surely.

We all know IL plays his cards very close to his chest when it comes to his own club, but there is also other SL chairmen involved here.

The RFL have gone to press with the proposals, certain championship CEO are going to press highly critical of IL and superleague as a whole, all of a sudden you have a very one sided mis-informed opinion of what is actually going on and assumptions being made by media, fans etc.

I do think it is time that the SL chairmen start there PR campaign and kick back so that the fans in particular, at all levels dont start to get seriously nervous and start to drift away from the sport altogether, otherwise we will have serious casualties and the SL chairmen tarnished with a major PR disaster

There is certainly a lot of politics going on here. I don't think it is helped though by IL simply saying he wants a return to straightforward P&R from a 14 team SL. This plays into the hands of those wanting the new system adopted because just about the only sensible bit of information in that report is the acknowledgement that P&R on that basis doesn't work.

So IL has picked an option that is hard to defend.

The report also concludes licensing doesn't work (via flawed reasoning IMO)m so if he had said the stance on licensing is flawed it would be easy to defend but as he has chosen to suggest reverting to the system that failed before we had licensing, he isn't on very solid ground.

I think he'd have been better to have said nothing rather than give his opponents an easy target as I suspect what he came out with isn't necessarily what he wants.

It is interesting though that so far the flak has been directed at IL but the players objections are seemingly being ignored. My guess is that is because complaints about a season of 31 games just for the league re hard to argue against. So they are being ignored as they seemingly were when the so called consultation took place.

Just had a good look through this weeks press and as Pie Min says a number of Champ clubs CEO having a go but I think there are some valid points, most will accept that is what you would expect if they think they will missout.

On the journalist side you have a significant contrast from Martyn Sadler on the one hand and Danny Lockwood on the other.

Both a good read to see some of the pro's and con's.

They are fairly large articles otherwise I would put them on, might be worth getting both the papers if you are interested and plenty of info on the World Cup as well.

[urlhttp://www1.skysports.com/rugby-league/news/12213/8973211/super-league-rugby-football-league-to-make-decision-on-bulls-owners[/url

If the 3 people are "fit and proper"

A little hypocritical when we still have the flagship comp without a sponsor !

Are the RFL going to ask if they are with IL or against before deciding?

Has Mr. Lenegan lost one of his supporters? www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/3451

Has Mr. Lenegan lost one of his supporters? www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/3451

Quote ="Fax Machine"Has Mr. Lenegan lost one of his supporters? www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/3451'" As someone who has read the Lenagan letter in full, the answer is no. The structure of the league is a minor point to the overarching issues Lenagan and others have. In summary the RFL are effing useless across a number of areas, including: - Governance and decison-making structures. - Sponsorship and commercial activities. - Marketing. - A coherent strategy for youth development. - The general running of the game. And messing with the league structure (again), while not being able to organise a drink in a brewery is essentially fiddling while Rome burns.

Quote ="Fax Machine"Has Mr. Lenegan lost one of his supporters? www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/3451'" As someone who has read the Lenagan letter in full, the answer is no. The structure of the league is a minor point to the overarching issues Lenagan and others have. In summary the RFL are effing useless across a number of areas, including: - Governance and decison-making structures. - Sponsorship and commercial activities. - Marketing. - A coherent strategy for youth development. - The general running of the game. And messing with the league structure (again), while not being able to organise a drink in a brewery is essentially fiddling while Rome burns.

wheres the letter?

Doubt you would find anyone disagreeing with the commercial and other incompetences listed by you but the minority sport of RL needs to be united to reach its potential in both marketable value and playing strength

For me though, it's the actual league structure that is important. Its the top 8 with 14 teams and no relegation that is turning fans away(my family and friends inc) because the regular season has become a boring full season of friendlies.

Exactly, Leeds have shown that the tactic to exploit this current league format (which we executed perfectly this season) is to hold as much back as possible and peak in the final month.

There needs to be a balance that means mediocrity is not rewarded (reducing number of PO places) whilst still giving the rest of the league something to play for (P+R), but the gap between tier 1 and tier 2 needs to be bridged to acheive this.

From someone at Leeds.





Apparently there's something in the League Weekly this week but don't know if that is the full letter?

The thing is, it isn’t.

The problem with the top 8, 14 team league isn’t the 14 team league and top 8 per se. Its that it is too easy for some clubs to get in to the 8. Everything wrong with the league structure stems from the disparity between top and bottom. Whatever system we implement, these same issue will be apparent. If all clubs were of the quality of Leeds, Wire, Saints, Wigan, Hudds etc then it would be incredibly difficult to qualify for the top 8. You would need to be better than at least 6 teams over the season who were as good as the best clubs. Clubs would take more points from each other , the league would be more even, the teams at the top wouldn’t be safe and able to it down a gear because that would result in a loss, and a loss would put you in danger of missing the 8.

The reason we don’t have this is because the league as a whole doesn’t produce enough players, the reason we don’t produce enough players is that we A) don’t have enough amateur players and B) clubs don’t invest enough in youth development. The reason clubs don’t invest in youth development is because they argue they don’t have the money, the reason they don’t have the money is because they don’t have good enough facilities and we as a game don’t bring in enough commercial and sponsorship revenue, we don’t have a high enough visibility or good enough image. We don’t have these things because we don’t do a good enough job to bring in the commercial and sponsorship revenue, we don’t build visibility or present a good image and so on.

What we need to do is get the structure and governance right so that we make the right decisions, sell ourselves better, employ the right people who can increase commercial and sponsorship revenue, improve our image and visibility, force clubs to invest in youth development so we create a player pool and pathway capable of supporting the game, force them to invest in infrastructure and facilities so they can attract fans to pay for players and youth development. We need to make sure that we have the infrastructure, facilities and people in place to create a virtuous cycle of investments, returns, investment.

We get that in place and you can invent and implement any league structure at all that you want and we will have a strong vibrant growing game. If we don’t and we just implement a new league structure the same problems will exist, from dead rubber games, to big margins of victory, to not meeting attendance potential, to poor visibility, image, commercial and sponsorship revenue.

Your post is bang on the money.
How can we get more competitive by=#0000FF REDUCING the number of academies.
Do they expect Wigan, Leeds, Saints etc to keep ploughing their money into youth development to then feed the rest of the clubs.

The U19's has been a disaster. Wigan have literally strolled through the season. How does that prepare those players for the next step in their careers. The clubs should be forced to spend more money on their youth systems.
And now we have the ludicrous decision to =#0000FFINCREASE the number of overseas players.

=#0000FFIt should be the other way round.