I don't know. I'm not sure Harlequins would have taken Williams for example. Or Castleford for that matter. Both wanted Super League experienced players. Penny offers that, Williams doesn't.

Valid point. Although i'm not sure teams would'nt want williams you only have to look at u'20s tapes and see his speed and build to know that he could develop into something special.

Same can be said of penny also, but you get the feeling smith prefers williams. And in certain situation i would also (crashing over from short distances with power) can't really see penny using his strength all too often in his game but i suppose he doesnt need to as he is a different type of winger.

In my head i see williams as the direct replacement for hicks. Think of hicks but only stronger, faster & younger. Penny is very similar to riley imo just taller, both capable of producing the Wow factor only riley has been more prolific, but who is to say penny would'nt be given the opportunity..

I just feel we are missing a trick with Penny.

Penny > __________________________________________________________ Williams

Yeah i know what you mean but the team has been playing some very good football this year so you dont really miss it that much.

There is only one thing we can do and that's wait until next year to see what smith has in mind.

Smith>_________________________________________________________________________ people on the internet

Is this your interpretation of them in a foot race?

Yeah wow he's missed another tackle or wow he jumped out of the line again or wow that winger ran straight over the top of him the list goes on and on , Fact is Penny isn't wanted at Warrington due to the Fact he can't play rugby !

Bla bla bla.

Heard it all before and I've conceded those points in my earlier post.

Of course he can play rugby. He's been in a Dream Team, he's been in Tony Smith's train-on squad and he's now playing for a Super League team.

More than most rugby players will ever do.

His try scoring stats would appear to contradict your rather blinkered view of one of the great young talents we have in our game. You obviously have a HUGE problem with Kevin, evident by the tosh you've posted above. All players have some shortfallings with their game, but this (Penny baiting) is becoming an obsession with you.

There are too many anti-Penny people who "support" our club. He's received more grief than any other players I've seen in my 30+ years of watching the Wire, yet he is probably the least deserving of all the bile aimed at him.

IMO he's still one of the top wingers in this country, unfortunately Mr Smith (at the mo, doesn't). Fingers crossed, Smith has a change of mind

What a complete T!T.

KP gives 100% every game. His commitment, enthusiasm and attitude cannot be faulted. He has speed to burn and like every player can make the odd mistake admittedly his defence needs some work on.

To say he can't play rugby is garbage. KP has been in SL's dreamteam so this suggests otherwise also take a look at his scoring stats for Warrington.

I am never going to take anything seriously this guy says anymore. The same guy who said "Bridge is made out of Biscuit".

well said 74, never a truer word spoken,,,

It p*sses me off when people go on about how bad Penny is. For ANYBODY WHO HAS EVER PLAYED RUGBY, to get to play in Super League he cant be bad. I play in division 5, and when you make the step up to play a team in a higher division you see the quality in the players. So to go so many levels above that, and play in Super League, at a relatively young age, you have to take your hat off to the lad.

He is playing AND scoring in the HIGHEST LEAGUE possible. So for any numpty that gives him jip on here, your really are just an ejit behind a computer screen.

Im not the lads biggest fan, i prefer our current wingers,BUT i have total respect for him,The lad makes mistakes, but only the same amount as any other winger. Its just that the focus tends to be on him as expectations are so high.

I wish him luck and hope to see him back in a Wire shirt in the next few months if not the future.

Genuinely hope he proves you wrong. Over and Out.

Penny Wages (£££'s) > ____________________________ Williams Wages (£££'s)

That's why one is on loan, keeping his name on the scoresheet and in the minds of potential suitors, and the other is in our reserves, looking dangerous without being able to pass a ball for love nor money.

If they earnt the same, Kev would probably have a chance. As he'll be on a decent screw, Smith will be looking for him to get a deal elsewhere ahead of 2011 which will then give Smith greater freedom in transfer market once you add together likely departures. (V.Anderson, Hicks, Penny ...)

In effect, you could get 3 SL players in, when in reality Smith thinks we've only got two and a half, but we're paying three. With Williams, you get what you pay for, two and a half.

i think penny is one of the most exciting players in superleague and a player who on his day is worth the entrance fee alone. I would rather have
him in the side with a supposed few mistakes than the vast majority of wingers. I would also like the club to be patient with him and let him
gain superleague experience with the aim of him holding a first team place over the next couple of years.

here's a poser then, when penny's contract is up, IF he is on such a good whack as everyone seems to know, should the club offer him a contract, possibly more modest or in line with his perceived standing/ability, and would it be sensible on kev's part to accept it.

I'm thinking this that, obviously any player should try to get the best deal possible, but with the stigma attached to him at the moment, is he going to get a big(ish) money offer from anywhere else in SL, would it be more worth his while to accept a conservative amount to remain at warrington as opposed to moving to london in order to improve himself and also prove his worth to our tony. Whereupon over the next two years if he gets back to his 2007 form and cements himself in the team then he can command top dollar, either here or somewhere else.

I must have missed the smith interview where he said "penny's is earning to much money, so I have decided, on that basis, not to play him in the first team."

I'm not saying that.

What i'm saying is, he's an expensive luxury for Smith to have at the club. Smith has decided that he doesn't future in his first choice 17 at the club and it's hard to argue against that really. Anybody outside of the 17 - you'd expert to earn wages in proportion to their standing within the squad, except Kev. He'll be earning the money that comes with a 4 year deal when you've burst onto the scene with your try scoring exploits, you're being compared to Martin Offiah, you're in a SL dreamteam & you've been called up to a GB train on squad.

So what do you do ? He's not in your first choice team and you have other 'cheaper' options. There's alot of question marks over his abilities that is perhaps putting other clubs off making firm offers etc, so - you send him out on loan, it works for all parties - he's proving the doubters wrong and keeping his value up to enable himself to secure a well paid future for the next few years, be it at our club or elsewhere and the club will be happy to see him do well and in all honesty probably look to offload him as they've another lad who can do a similar job (Williams) who earns less.

I guess it's what, 'cap management' if you will. As has been mentioned, if he earnt peanuts would he have a much greater chance of staying here for years to come - you'd have to think so, yes.

Agreed, Williams looks ordinary to me as well, I believe its Rhys Evans that will be something special.

Kevin Penny on the other hand is as good an attacking winger as there is in British RL, and if Tony Smith doesn't want him at Warrington then he'll be a star at another Super League club.

Out of all the super legue wingers is Penny the smallest in body size.I get the feeling the moden day winger needs to be bulit like a prop but be able to run like Usain Bolt.

You're more than welcome to send Williams back over the border to the Crusaders on loan while you make up your mind. We're in need of a bit of pace on the wing.

I know he's only young but for me I would make him Hicks replacement! He's fast, string and good defencivly! Just need some long term experiance and he will be good enough to start for me!

Sounds like you're describing williams to me

Rhys has looked like a rabbit in the headlights every time he's played, he might be quicker but there are other factors.

Penny has a better sidestep and better acceleration and always looks more likely to make a break than Rhys.

isnt Peter Fox great at those things as well .....? I was particularly impressed how he didnt drop any high kicks tonight when Saints put four bombs up for him.....
I dont suppose it counts as an error if your too Crap and $hit scared to get anywhere near any of them does it...

Peter Fox was defensively as bad as any proffesional ive ever seen play the game...and i'm sure you have stated he is a far far better winger than Penny on numerous occasions.....

clearly you dont understand the game which is reasurring when I have exactly the opposite opinion to you on everything to do with Rugby League