If 1 is below average, 2 average, 3 good, 4 very good and 5 world class, how do you rate each member of the squad?

Ablett 2
Bailey 2
Bridge2
Briscoe 4
Brough 4
Burrow 4
Carvell 2
Charnley 3 will be 4 very soon i would think
Chase 4
Crabtree 3
Cudjoe 3
Hall 5
Hardaker 3
Henderson 3
Hock 4
Jones-Bishop 3 will be 4
Jones-Buchanan 2
Lomax 3 will be 4
McGuire 4
McIlorum 2
Morley 4
Mossop 3 will be 4
O'Loughlin 3
Peacock 5
Roby 5
Sinfield 4
Tomkins 5
Watkins 4 will be 5 i think
Welham 2
Westwood 4
Wilkin 4
Yeaman 3.

Plus
Graham 5
Burgess 5
Ellis 5
Reed 2
Widdop 4

Although this is my personal opinion I think it's clear to see that we still do not have quite enough quality to compete with the Aussies. If I went through their squad I'm sure I wouldn't give any less than a 3 and there would be a lot more 4s and 5s. I do think slowly but surely we are heading in the right direction though.

But it's just the ETS and not the actual squad that will be competing in the Internationals. Surprised Willie Manu isn't in there, though.

You rate Yeaman, Cudjoe and Hardaker above Reed! Can you explain that one too me!
Wilkin above Ablett and JJB? Crabtree ahead of Carvell? Not sure about those!
Westwood is much better than Hock!

Maybe not everyones opinions are the same

I have seen nothing from reed to suggest he's anywhere near international class. Playing in the nrl doesn't automatically mean your an amazing player. Wilkin is miles better than ablett. Astronomically.

I'd have Bridge, Watkins and Atkins (not in ETS) before Reed, but I didn't think he did too badly. Reed on Par with Yeaman, slightly above Welham and is better than Hardaker.

Reed is far better than Hardaker, Yeaman and Welham at this point!

Your right playing in the NRL doesnt make you an amzing player! But your not too shabby if you are a regular for Brisbane and play for the NRL all stars! Based on his performances for England against Australia and NZ, I see nothing that would put any english ahead of him! Forged a good partnership with Hall aswell!

With the exception of his kicking game Ablett is head and shoulders above Wilkin in every single attribute. Wilkin is massively over rated.

Abletts versatility has affected his development but I still think he is a better player than John 'we lost another GF to Leeds but it wasnt our fault this is my excuse....' Wilkin!
It was raining/there were cameras in the changing rooms/they were patting each other on the back after a big hit/one of there players was celebrating in front of his own fans/ they tackled our young players too hard!

Seriously ?

Yeaman is a good player but Reed is already better than him and was much more of a threat in the four nations last year.

Mossop, Lockers and Charnley only rated 3? Can tell your a Saints fan

Mossop is a 4. Charnley is a 3 (will be a 4 in a year or so), and lockers would be lucky to get a 2.

Behave yourself.

Lockers is closer to a 5 than a 4.

Bridge and Reed only a 2!? both excellent centres.

I would look at the squad from a slightly different angle. We have 5 players who I think we can genuinely describe as world class who would be automatic selections if fit (the 5 category)

Graham
Burgess
Tomkins
Roby
Hall


Then a second tier who are top quality players who have played well at times internationally - The 4’s. I would certainly include Peacock and probably Morley in the class above if it were not for their age but I agree with many that we should be looking to the future. Ellis could be in the top group but hasn’t been outstanding internationally for the last couple of years

Westwood
Ellis
Burrow
Sinfield
Peacock
Morley
O'Loughlin


Then, a string of exiting young players who have the potential to be top class or even world class (interestingly, after a barren spell, most are outside backs. I guess we could potentially have Mossop in the list). They will be 4’s or 5’s if they progress

Widdop
Briscoe
Charnley
Jones-Bishop
Lomax
Watkins
Reed


Finally, the ‘wild card’ – we don’t know yet whether he will set the top flight international arena alight

Brough


Some good players in the rest but nobody to get really excited about

If the young outside backs progress as we hope and we keep our best forwards healthy there is the real opportunity to have a very good looking England team in the World Cup

I've also said charnley an mossop will be a 4 very soon. Charnley is good but not as good as briscoe yet who I have a 4 to. He probably will end up being better than briscoe. Mossop is one of the most promising forwards we have and will go a long way but he's hardly played enough super league games and no international games to claim he is good enough yet. Take the Wigan specs off for once in your life.

Are we basing this on what we've seen just this season or in the past at International level or what?

Can think of a few players not selected in my opinion 4 rating on form anyway

Robbo?? Atkins??

And England knights players also on form at moment on 4 rating

Mossop is superb and will be the next England prop in the Morley/Peacock mould. Giving Lockers a 3 is an insult compared to some of your other marks

. Charnley is a 4 now and will be a must in the England team if he keeps playing like has been, he is as good as Briscoe now and will be better the more he plays.

Bookmark this post if you want and we will see who is right in the future. I will be suprised if i hear from you again to be honest

Trying to communicate with you is so painful as you seem to be the most stupid person ever to exist, but let's give it one more go.

I AGREE that Mossop will be an England prop and I also think he will be one of the best we've ever had, but we don't know if this is going to be the case. Many players have looked brilliant when they have come in as a young player but never really hit the heights we expected (see Danny Orr, Chris Thorman, etc). Is less than 50 appearances for Wigan (the majority of which have been from the bench) and 0 (thats zero) international appearances enough to claim that he is going to be a very good or world class player at international level? Answer: is it b0ll0cks!

As for Charnley, exactly the same as Mossop, I agrre he will be better than Briscoe, but Briscoe has proved himself at international level already and played well and scored good tries at that level. Charnley has not. It's that simple. Until he plays international rugby, how can anyone rate him as such?

O' Loughlin is a matter of opinion (who would have thought people have different ones), I don't think he ever has been or ever will be a great international loose forward. Decent but that's about it. I hope he proves me wrong and becomes the greatest ever of all time but he won't. Sculthorpe in his prime was a 5 and O' Loughlin isn't half the player, in my opinion of course.

You need to apply the same rules to all your ratings then, not just the Wigan ones. You opened by saying rate the squad with numbers etc which i assume you mean off the players ability. Some of the players you have rated above them have done fook all at international level and never will do as they have had many opportunities and failed.

There are some SERIOUSLY rose tinted spectacles being worn on this thread.

Absolutely

And a heck of a lot of players being scored on the club they play for rather than any rational opinion.

One point on a player omitted but Robbo must be wondering what he's done to upset MacNamara - got a chance to play for England on the back of a lot of injuries and took it with both hands, covering himself in glory against international opposition each time he's pulled the England shirt on and he gets left out.

Mind, I firmly believe that in England we do have the people to beat Austrailia now, just they arent being necessarily picked, and if the are picked, they are played out of position.

Quite simply, we can pick half a dozen wingers and centres that CAN do it against the Aussies, we have a fullback that is truly capable of changing a game if given chance

We have genuine compeition for halfback places

We are falling over ourselves for top class hookers and as ever the only question of our pack is who the hell do you leave out.

Smalltown parochial club-biased short-sightedness on the VT - surely not!
After careful consideration I have rated the squad on a totally impartial and disinterested basis.

Ablett 5
Bailey 5
Bridge 1
Briscoe 1
Brough 1
Burrow 5
Carvell 1
Charnley 1
Chase 1
Crabtree 1
Cudjoe 1
Hall 5
Hardaker 5
Henderson 1
Hock 1
Jones-Bishop 5
Jones-Buchanan 5
Lomax 1
McGuire 5
McIlorum 1
Morley 1
Mossop 1
O'Loughlin 1
Peacock 5
Roby 5
Sinfield 5
Tomkins 1
Watkins 5
Welham 1
Westwood 1
Wilkin 1
Yeaman 1.

Plus
Graham 1
Burgess 1
Ellis 1-5
Reed 1
Widdop 1

I'd rate them as...

Ablett - 2/3
Bailey - 2
Bridge - 2/3
Briscoe - 3/4
Brough - 3/4
Burrow - 4
Carvell - 2
Charnley - 3/4
Chase - 3
Crabtree - 3/4
Cudjoe - 2/3
Hall - 5
Hardaker - 2 (but will improve quickly)
Henderson - 3
Hock - 4/5
Jones-Bishop - 2/3
Jones-Buchanan - 3/4
Lomax - 3
McGuire - 3
McIlorum - 2/3
Morley - 4/5
Mossop - 3 (perhaps 4 by the end of the season)
O'Loughlin - 4/5
Peacock - 5
Roby - 5
Sinfield - 4
Tomkins - 5
Watkins - 3/4
Welham - 2
Westwood - 4
Wilkin - 3
Yeaman - 2

Plus
Graham - 5
Burgess - 5
Ellis - 5
Reed - 4
Widdop - 4

Ablett - 4
Bailey - 2
Bridge - 2
Briscoe - 3
Brough - 4/5
Burrow - 5
Carvell - 4
Charnley - 4
Chase - 3
Crabtree - 4
Cudjoe - 4
Hall - 5
Hardaker - 3
Henderson - 3
Hock - 3
Jones-Bishop - 3
Jones-Buchanan - 3
Lomax - 3
McGuire - 3
McIlorum - 2/3
Morley - 4/5
Mossop - 3
O'Loughlin - 3
Peacock - 4
Roby - 3 (the game is changing and he is of the old scooting hooker school)
Sinfield - 4
Tomkins - 5
Watkins - 4
Welham - 2
Westwood - 4
Wilkin - 3
Yeaman - 2

Plus
Graham - 5
Burgess - 5
Ellis - 5
Reed - 4
Widdop - 4