[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/super_league/hull_kr/8417462.stm£3.5 millions at the moment, with £2 million to be repaid within a year[/url

Surprised there hasn't been a FC-KR ding-dong on this yet. Well, since the figures were made public anyway...

You cannot read anything into those debts. The directors have invested heavily in expenditure to basically haul the team from a Championship side up to being a competitive SL side, which has the potential to win trophies. They have said that they will personally underwrite the debts.

So unless the directors leave or decide enough is enough they are not in that much trouble. Although the rumours that they are offering half their first team squad to other clubs for nothing doesn't instill much confidence.

hudghill was quoted in the local paper saying he would review his financial imput at the end of the season, he has also called on local companies to help fund the club, which at the moment is very unlikely to happen due to cash being tight in all areas, also who is going to pump money into a club that is constantly losing money year on year?

It seems to bother others more than it does HKR board. Most clubs are in debt, its a fact of life, most businesses run on debt another fact of life, if its a manageable debt there isn't a problem. I am sure that the debt is something the club can cope with long term and plans will be in place to reduce it, after all the directors are under writing it so they will be striving to reduce it rather than become liable for it or lose their investment in the club.

yet they seem keen on offloading one of their highest earners in cooke, if it didn't bother them why would they be tring to offload him?

the club can't keep losing 400k+ a year (as it has every year in superleague) for ever, not unless you've secretly got a sheik or an oligarch picking up the tab.

and I don't see where the extra income is going to come from in the short term. Craven Park requires investment to be able to attract bigger crowds and I personally only see Rovers average growing 1/2,000 larger no matter what success ensures (based on historic crowds, and the presence of FC and Hull City)

extra income could be gained via corporate sales (which doesn't bring in the money it once did in the recession) and a better merchandise operation.

apart from that the only option is to let big earners leave, and replace them with youth...which I feel is the option Rovers are going to be forced to take.

The accounts lodged at Companies House simply state that the bulk of HKR's creditors are due to be repaid within 12 months. This amount will include amounts owed (on normal credit terms) to various suppliers, any money owed to the bank on the overdraft as well as anything due to the taxman for PAYE/NI, VAT & Corporation Tax. All of these will certainly need to be paid over the next 12 months. Money borrowed from the directors/shareholders will also be included in this amount, but the classification as being due in the next 12 months doesn't necessarily mean that the directors will expect to be repaid in this period.

You only need to look at what's happened at Watford FC to see that reliance on funding from the directors can quickly lead to a business finding itself on the verge of Administration. The Watford chairman lent a further £1m to the club at the start of December but a little more than 2 weeks later was demanding immediate repayment of the total amount of director's loan (about £5m).

I'm in no way suggesting that the HKR directors are about to pull the plug in the same way that happened to Watford, but if the bulk of the outstanding creditors at HKR are indeed the directors it's certainly something that shouldn't be ignored.

From what I understand, the directors at HKR are there for the long-haul and at the moment that has to be a good thing for the club.

As you well know, there are other reasons why Hull KR might want to release Cooke. Financial reasons not least admittedly, but there are plenty of others.

No they can't keep on losing that much every year, but it is still less than the average loss for SL clubs.

The board seem to be addressing the situation, much of which was brought about by having to offer longer term contracts of a higher value than they would have to offer now to attract players to a newly promoted club.

If Rovers can attract another 1000 or so and bring through a couple more youngsters when Cooke and Galea leave at the end of next season then they'll be pretty much on an even keel.

Because he ain't worth what we pay him.

Which is the most sensible approach to take, one which I think they are trying to do.

That gets a rarely-bestowed Adeybull award for a thoroughly sensible and accurate post.



I've not called off the accounts yet, but I presume they will have been prepared on a going concern basis reflecting formalised (and contractual) assurances from the directors/owners regarding ongoing financial support?

If you look at the accounts of a number of other SL clubs, you see pretty much the same situation - except in some cases the directors' loans are rather larger...

Cos he's crap would be my first thought tbh.

Thanks Adeybull - might need to frame that



I'll save you the trouble of pulling off the accounts because I have had a look at them. As the turnover is below the limit for formal audit all the company is obliged to submit is unaudited abbreviated accounts. They are still professionally produced but not subject to the "going concern" sign off that audited accounts are subjected to.

I'd agree with what you're saying re other SL clubs (and indeed the majority of other businesses too).

"Cougars" "Cougars"

"Donny" "Donny"

"Thunder" "Thunder"

"Vikings" "Vikings"

Not that anything regarding FINANCES has any connection whatsoever between those.

I would suggest that the above have already fallen off the knife edge and some are teetering big style.

It only takes the lightest touch!!!!

I remember HKR being in administration for a considerable time not that long ago.

Just be wary that's all

Unlike most RL clubs HKR have actually spent millions on their stadium.

This story says it all about what it takes to succeed (survive) in SL and the knife-edge many clubs are walking to make that a reality. Speculating to accumulate is obviously the only way forward for anyone that wants to make a mark in any business, but its also 50-50 as to whether your club (business) survives these days. Says as much about the sport and its governing body for me, as it does the clubs/businesses trying to work within the system.

hull kr have been a fantastic addition to SL and have achieved more than clubs thatve been there for longer like wakey

SL needs as many competitive teams as possible

i hope they continue their ground improvements and crowd base

The extension to the East Stand will create more space in the North stand for away supporters meaning less will need to use the South stand. Although it wont create thousands more at Craven Park every little helps!

When you look at the likes of Matt Cook, Josh Hodgson, Mike Ratu all coming in replacing the likes of Ben Galea, Ben Fisher and Jake Webster in time their contracts will be much much smaller yet they have a year to learn off these players at least.

If we do let Cooke go at the end of the season then I would suggest another top signing would just take his wage anyway as there are no amazing youngsters coming through for that position so I dont feel Cooke is going due to financial reasons I just think the club feel their money could be better spent on someone more consistant and to Justins fancy.

If we are losing 450k a year it is interesting to find out just how we are going to repay 2m within a year? I am not very business minded so there is probably a very simple explanation to this but I just hope that we will reduce these debts and not incure any future debts of a similar number!

As stated though this competition needs clubs to be competative and the only way to do this is to speculate and keep your fingers crossed you make the money through the gates and other ways.

an oligarch huh?

wheres ancient greece when you need it.

[iHudgell has previously hinted that board members have been prepared to underwrite the debts and fund investment in the playing squad.[/i

Like most clubs in the NRL and SL they are being underwritten for losses currently by external funding sources. Hopefully we can get to situation in the not too distant future where our income and expenditure are closer together and we don't rely on rich fans digging deep. Our shirt this years has more sponsers than I've ever seen and hopefully another succesful year on the field and the East stand extension will see our gate taking going up.

Some clubs are losing alot more than us and the RFL needs to take a hard look at long term sustainability of SL given that most clubs are losing significant amounts.

NRL clubs lose an average of $2 - $3 million each before outside backers

only 2 nrl clubs make profits

sporting clubs generally lose money. the question is do clubs have adequate sources of external income

if club directors put money into a club as loans then the debts of a club arent really like proper debts to the taxman etc

how many clubs in SL are viable without a backer

In what way? I await your typically ill informed nonsense, it\s always worth a laugh.

So have most clubs, it's just that at some clubs it's all been safety work that you just can't see. Wakefield have spent in excess of 1.5 million just to keep BV open in the last 5 years. How much better that would have been if put towards a new ground. Sadly the UK planning and H&S laws don't allow that to happen easily.

Don't kid yourself, there is nothing special about what HKR have done ground wise. As for their debt, I'd consider it a worry.

1. ground improvements - nil. vs what Hull KR
2. falling crowds

a typical example of a club who waste the RFLs limited money