oldham in trouble [url=http://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news-features/11/roughyeds-news/31686/rl-club-facing-windup-orderagain[/url

You have to wonder why they even bother. Rugby league isn't capable of being a professional sport outside of Super League. Teams are going to the wall left right and centre and those that do continue do so on the back of cash strapped benefactors.

Either get the sheiks involved in the sport or make it amateur below SL to reduce the cost.

You could quite comfortably be talking about a good few Super League clubs there as well. In fact, most sporting clubs in this country rely on benefactors to keep them afloat.

They certainly do, i'd be surprised if more then 15 pro or semi pro clubs are solvent in the UK.

And you've been very generous with your figure there I think, Chris

They should have 1 semi-pro division of about 12-14 teams I think, but teams like Doncaster and Oldham do this every other season, I really lose all sympathy for the clubs (though still have some for the fans of course), so clearly should be either amateur or pay a small match fee.

They need to license the Championship and not let the likes of Doncaster, Oldham or Gateshead anywhere near til they're in better shape

So you're alleging that [ihow many[/i limited companies are knowingly trading whilst insolvent, then? Care to name any?

No I don't as I have no facts whatsoever hence why I said possibly.

For the avoidance of doubt, a company is insolvent if it is unable to pay its debts as and when they fall due.

Do not confuse this with a club having an excess of liabilities over assets ("technical insolvency"icon_wink.gif.

Many - most, maybe - RL clubs are "technically insolvent". Including some big names which might surprise some people. But they are able to keep trading because their owners/directors have committed to ensuring that the company has sufficient cash to enable it to continue trading for at least the next twelve months. Thereby they remain "solvent" and so may continue trading legally and without personal liability on the directors for trading whilst insolvent. This may be by, for example, by owners or directors:

[list
* Contractually agreeing to subordinate their loans to the interest of the other creditors
* Personally and contractually guaranteeing - or providing security for - the company's overdraft or other debt/s
* Personally and contractually agreeing to inject additional subordinated loan funds, or equity, should the need arise.[/list:u

Although quite why a non-owner director would do any of this this escapes me...

If necessary owners may write off loans to the company, or (a
(as happened with Saints recently) allow loans to be converted to shares thereby reducing the liabilities.

Sometimes, the lender may allow the situation to continue if the debt is secured on assets whose market value is a lot higher than their book value. That used to be the case sometimes with grounds, although probably less likely nowdays, and anyway most such properties have long since been sold.

It is easy for anyone to say get rid of Oldham or any other club outside of SL from the comfort zone of being a supporter of one of the clubs who does receive almost £1m Sky money a year. In Oldham's defence I would say look at the current England team how many other towns have produced two players that are in the team that do not have a team in SL. Lose Oldham and do you lose the production line which helped produce the likes of Kyle Eastmond and Kevin Sinfield?

Are you implying that if there wasn't a struggling semi-pro club in the town none of the schools or amateur clubs in the area would exist?

Personally, I think there is a certain credence in the argument. Particularly as the nearest pro clubs are either over t'hill or the other side of Manchester.

Sounds like he's saying that. From what I gather plenty of people in Oldham support other clubs now. Either way there's only so many times they can turn a blind eye to unviable clubs

Strange as it sounds I wondered whether this was the intention of the RLIF when they introduced a team in Dubai.

I may seem a bit naive here but how do you end up owing the tax man money? as you pay on what you earn or have paid in wages(emloyers liability) on vat you pay 15% of what you take. If you take nothing you pay nothing, if you have spent the money you should have put aside to pay tax or paid out wages that you can not afford then I have no sypathy.
I suspect it is a lot more complicated but I would genuinly like to know how it happens.

Sad to say they are in deeper trouble then Gateshead, £47,000 tax bill. Oh Dear!! 2 tiny divisions below the SL clearly isn't working at all. Teams haven't got enough meaningfull home fixtures to be viable.

Well said, unfortunatley there are to many rl 'fans' on here that are quick to be critical of a situation they know nothing about either through ignorance or stupidity.

Its actually more than a million in sky money now, its terrible i think that the top level of our game is so selfish that no money can be 'spared' for nl clubs. In 10 years people are going to be complaining about the england team and not realising that letting lower league clubs suffer will result in less english players coming through.

Its sad how short sighted our sport is at times.

It's happening too often now. I don't think the people of Oldham are interested in the professional club. Some amateur teams are getting better crowds now than the professional club.

The guy who runs Oldham is a qualified accountant as well. You'd think he'd be a bit better with the figures. He's also the President of the RFL this year. How embarrassing would that be if the club of the President's club went bust whilst he was in office.

The infighting between Mr Quinn and the other guy hasn't helped things either.

I for one think this is the end of the road. They are going to be homeless when Oldham Athletic move to their new ground and all this talk of a new rugby stadium in the town has never materialised.

I think this is the end of the road.

Perhaps these are RL fans who know that Championship clubs DO get some Sky money. Perhaps these are RL fans who know about the mandatory friendlies with SL clubs where the lower club gets 100% of revenue. Perhaps these are RL fans who know that a greater proportion of players coming through SL academies end up at championship clubs. Perhaps these are RL fans who understand how dual registration will help the finances of championship sides.

The Oldham players in the England team came through the Leeds and Saints youth structures. Previously 2 top players in Scully and Harris came through Warrington (when Oldham was a SL club!). There are are some very good Oldham kids on the books of several SL teams.

I hope Oldham survive and thrive. Attributing their problems to Sky / SL is nonsense. An understanding of the earlier Quin ownership may be a better starting point.

Lose the clubs at the bottom and the whole game will die, the RFL MUST at least try and make things more viable for both the two lower pro divisions, there are simply not enough home games in a 10 or 11 team league, either bring new teams in ( doughtfull at present ) or merge the two divisions into one with a 6 team play off. My own club has 9 home league games, 2 or 3 NRC games and maybe 2 CC games. How can any club run well on that low level of income from Gate reciepts?

Is this the club that is /was the Oldham Bears??

No. Totally different club. Despite the fact they cling onto the records of the old club.

Oldham Bears went bust in 1997.

The new club, Oldham RLFC 1997 Ltd, was formed afterwards and entered into the lowest tier of the RFL. They almost made it to Super League a few years back, losing in the Grand Final to Widnes.

They dont get sky money though, not in the same way that sl clubs do they are given money to spend on certain things but not money to spend however they want (on playing sqaud or youth structures), even then it is a pitifully small amount compared to the money sl clubs are given, without which most sl clubs would struggle, more still would struggle without a sugar daddy(something alot easier to attract in sl, take huddersfield for example without a rich benefactor and help from the rfl they would be languishing in the lower leagues now instead of having one of the brightest futures of any british rl club), how many rl clubs in britain are actually self sufficient ?

If rl is actually going to move forward we are going to need more clubs, whilst we seem to be heading towards less, if rl cant support the teams in the heartlands enough for them to survive then we might as well forget expansion altogether, if we support expansion clubs over the heartlands or vice versa we will be doomed to failure.

Yes many players from lower league clubs areas will come through sl academies mainly because the sl academies can offer far more money as they are given over a million a year by sky, have far greater sponsership opportunities, find it easier to attract sugar daddies, and get better travelling support. sl clubs will then let go all but the best of these youngsters, who end up playing in the nl's, maybe even for there local club who would have loved to have the chance to develop these youngsters but were outbid by sl rivals.

As for dual registration well we will have to see how it affects rl because no one on here can claim they know the effects of something that hasnt happened yet.

Too true .

It's gone to overseas crocks and pension seekers instead of the development of the game at whatever level.

Sadly Cas are indicted as well, and even the Cougars have 2 overseas players

which for the life of me I can't understand why.

Are we finally admitting that the WHOLE development system in the entire country is rubbish?

How much money do CC and CC1 clubs get from Sky?