Yeah like I said, very bitter.



Not sure why you keep harping on about £5 world cup tickets either when the only games you could get into for a fiver were in Dublin and Cumbria which is something all sports do for the less attractive "events" but feel free to keep on spouting your cr@p and stating your bitter little man's predictions as fact (you're usually very, very wrong anyway). The rest of us will continue going to support the game we love like the sheep we are.

And I'd hope if Leeds do reach Wembley next year that they do rest most of the squad. That's been happening for decades, it's nothing new but then you knew that anyway.

£5 tickets were widely available, but your geographical grasp of anywhere other than your front garden does go some way to explaining the crap crowd in Limerick then



24 Teams in 2014 v the same 24 teams attendances in 2015.....that's the best way to see if the new system works. I don't think it will increase attendances that much, but I have been wrong in the past and I am after all, only expressing my opinion.

As for me being bitter? My only concern is that RL in the UK has now regressed to being a northern sport once again and that the sponsorship coin will continue to dry up........middle 8 teams scrambling to hire 2nd rate Aussies will once again dictate conversations rather than what young english talent is coming through at those middle 8 clubs....

You can say it as many times as you like, stamp your feet if you like, but they weren't.
Feel free to provide evidence if you're so sure.



They tried, they failed. But at least they tried. Do you think the crowd would've been higher if tickets were £15+ ?




So now it's 24 teams and not just SL


I'm too tired to look but didn't you claim earlier that overall crowds would be down, now you're saying they'll be up?



It's always been a northern sport. A couple of thousand fans in London didn't make it a national sport


2nd rate Aussies have been a feature of RL since before SL so why even bring that up?

As for sponsorship drying up, haven't we just signed a record TV deal with SKY or did I imagine that?

You're completely off your nut.

Gutterfax is hacked off - he said the RLWC would be a disaster and no one would attend the games!! The fact the opposite happened gave him egg on his face and he is trying some diversionary tactics to cover his lack of understanding

SL needed reducing to 10 that would make the comp. an appropriate size for the quantity of talent available - London should have been one of the ten. Attendances would have increased as the quality would have higher and the games more competitive - simple

I don't see why we should be ashamed of being a 'northern sport'. There must be about 10 million people within 30 minutes drive of a SL club. We've got plenty to work on there and the amateur, semi-pro game and national team can still engage 'southerners'.

I was wrong about attendances at RLWC and was the first to admit it. No egg. As for lack of understanding, NOBODY, not 1 poster here predicted the attendances achieved....or anything like them. When I said about 350,000 about 12 months out, nobody disagreed...their silence was only broken after it became obvious that I was wrong in my prediction......which was based on previous efforts to promote the game here. The only thing I didn't "understand" was how good Sally Bolton was.

As for a 10 team comp including London.......that is now an impossible pipe dream until there is a total change at the top in the RFL and an acceptance that "london" will need a lot more funding.....regardless of how many pit-village clubs whine like bitches about how unfair it is.

They were...and tenner tickets for double header semi-finals too......check out the profit made from the comp for further proof.


Dublin isn't Limerick.........you said Dublin. Buy an Atlas.



No....I said 24 teams a few pages back.....
....nope, I'm saying they might be up, but I believe they wont be up. I do believe that average attendances will be up in SL next year........and that was the conversation I was involved in before you started your waffle.


If it's always been an Northern sport, how come RL fans in general demand national press coverage like other codes? Why the moaning about the BBC's lack of coverage?

Because we were told that getting rid of the reliance on these imports was VITAL to the game by Nigel and the lads......a few years licencing and we've started to export players in significant numbers, so what do they do? Drag us back to the boom or bust mentality.....


You imagined it. What happened was Sky painted Nigel into a corner and he bit their hand off........they have secured their summer filler sport for 2/10th of SFA and have managed to get a Thursday night game into the mix too.....check out the attendances for those games.....attendances BTW are one of the gripes that chairmen have we are often told.
TV isn't sponsorship by the way.........have you switched energy suppliers yet? If not, better get a move on because it's the only way the "sponsor" has to pay any money for the naming rights.


Maybe.....but I am more often than not right......a point proven by the number of times my error regarding the RLWC attendances is raised on here.

A SL club in London is the pipe dream. No matter how much money was thrown at them you cannot escape the fact that there aren't enough punters interested to go and watch them and they would continue to be a huge drain on the limited RFL resources forever and a day. It wouldn't appear that they are vital, or even semi-important, to the Sky contract either now would it?

Even in the 'pit village' heartlands (including where the so called big names play) there isn't enough interest to have more than 3 or 4 clubs who aren't running at a hand to mouth or lower existance. That won't change whilst soccer is around and is what needs to be accepted before the game can grow and expand in this country.

Point of order.......in the 13 years I have followed the team, the owners......regardless of who they were never marketed the team. We are told that 50% of theq sky audience are in London. ....before we say theres no interest, maybe we should market the games. Hughes has , spent less than 1 million of the 15 hes wasted on marketing.......and hes surprised nobody came to games

I agree with this and it was actually a point I made to some London fans a couple of years back. Me and some friends went down to see the Leeds game at the Stoop, and over the course of the weekend didn't see a single poster, advert or anything for the game. At the time, we held the World Club Challenge. Even with my limited marketing knowledge (nil), it didn't seem like it would be too difficult to harness some extra interest from a "Broncos vs the World champs blockbuster" type campaign. But, no, there was nothing. On game day we even chatted to some Twickenham locals in one of the pubs, and they had no idea there was even a game on

Yep, keep stamping your feet. The only person you're convincing is yourself and i'm not even sure that you actually believe it.



Oh. So if tickets had been £15 in Limerick would the crowd have been higher? You forgot to answer...



Oh. So it's a few pages back and not since the new system was announced? Took you a while to come up with that one.
You'll still be wrong.



Make your mind up then.



A few people on a forum doesn't equate to most RL fans. The BBC do OK.



See, now you're just making stuff up. Players being deemed good enough for the NRL is a good thing and proof we're doing the right things but it's hardly significant numbers going over.
There's more youth coming through than we've ever seen and that's due to many reasons including the salary cap.
Has the salary cap been scrapped or something? If it hasn't then with the TV sponsorship money in place then no one is going bust.



Keep grasping at those straws but please stop making stuff up.




Thread bookmarked then.

Stop making stuff up.

The RFL can't magic up a viable London club without about 20 million quid to throw at it. Why have them in SL just because they're in London? The club doesn't have it's own stadium, and still doesn't even have a long term stadium deal.

What can the RFL do about that?

If anyone's serious about RL succeeding at the top level in London then we need to buy into the New River Stadium and turn it into a top class facility for Skolars and Broncos to play at LONG TERM.

Until then there's no value in having a London presence in SL as it will continue to be a financial disaster.

Tbh SL does not need London, can't afford the massive marketing and stadium hire a team in London needs and would be much better off investing that money in clubs in nth and sth Wales were the game has far more potential at grass roots and a professional level. Amateur, schools and semi pro local clubs around the London boroughs are the best that part of England can hope for.

If you keep responding to Gutters then he will respond right back. If you don't want to give him air time, stop addressing him directly or simply put him on ignore.

As for the averages we'll when it was a 12 team comp previously, their averages where higher. But those who run an agenda at the time would not have pointed this out when the competition expanded to 14 teams.

I've no problem with Williams figures. It's a shame the numbers are down. But that's the way it is. Hopefully clubs are taking notice as this mantra of it does not matter until the playoffs will hurt them more in the long run. It does matter and it needs to matter to get people to turn up and pay for these players.

[uUPDATE[/u: Warrington have completed all their regular round home fixtures in 2014 for a total aggregate attendance of 128,313 and an average of 9,870. This is the first time since 2009 that Warrington's home attendances have dipped below 10,000. Their home attendances have fallen by just over 7% in successive seasons.

2009: 119,873/13 = 9,221
2010: 142,446/13 = 10,957
2011: 144,402/13 = 11,108
2012: 148,873/13 = 11,452
2013: 138,232/13 = 10,633 (down 7.15%)
=#FF00002014: 128,313/13 = 9,870 (down 7.18%)

[uSL Round 25 attendances - comparison to same fixtures last year[/u

Warrington V Huddersfield in 2014 = 8,777
Warrington V Huddersfield in 2013 = 9,797
% decrease = -10.41%

Hull V Hull KR in 2014 = 18,104
Hull V Hull KR in 2013 = 19,064
% decrease = -5.04%

Leeds V St Helens in 2014 = 17,682
Leeds V St Helens in 2013 = 15,998
% increase = +10.53%

Widnes V Wigan in 2014 = 6,223
Widnes V Wigan in 2013 = 6,528
% decrease = -4.67%

Catalans V London in 2014 = 7,067
Catalans V London in 2013 = 6,286
% increase = +12.42%

Castleford V Bradford in 2014 = 7,428
Castleford V Bradford in 2013 = 6,633
% increase = +11.99%

Wakefield V Salford in 2014 = 4,016
Wakefield V Slaford in 2013 = 6,986
% decrease = -42.51%

Total Attendance in SL Round 25 = 69,297 (Avg: 9,900)
Total Attendance same fixtures last year = 71,292 (Avg: 10,185)
% decrease = -2.80%

3 out of 7 fixtures in Round 25 have shown an increase in attendance compared to the same SL fixtures last year. 4 out of 7 fixtures in Round 25 have shown a decrease in attendance compared to the same SL fixtures last year.

********************************************

[uSL Round 24 attendances (V corresponding 7 fixtures 2009-2013)[/u
=#FF0000SL 2014.. Round 24 total = 69,297
SL 2013... same fixtures = 71,292 -2.80%
SL 2012... same fixtures = 74,693 -7.22%
SL 2011... same fixtures = 73,406 -5.60% =#FF0000**
SL 2010... same fixtures = 70,958 -2.34% =#FF0000**
SL 2009... same fixtures = 79,681 -13.03% =#FF0000**

NOTE...=#FF0000** except replace Widnes with Crusaders

********************************************

[uRegular Season SL Attendances by Round in 2014 V Corresponding Fixtures in 2013[/u

[uRound 1 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2014 = 71,744 (Avg: 10,249)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2013 = 66,109 (Avg: 9,444)
% increase = +8.52%

[uRound 2 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2014 = 58,829 (Avg: 8,404)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2013 = 59,229 (Avg: 8,461)
% decrease = -0.67%

[uRound 3 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2014 = 52,641 (Avg: 7,520)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2013 = 53,062 (Avg: 7,580)
% decrease = -0.79%

[uRound 4 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2014 = 51,246 (Avg: 7,321)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2013 = 52,108 (Avg: 7,444)
% decrease = -1.65%

[uRound 5 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2014 = 62,477 (Avg: 8,925)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2013 = 56,276 (Avg: 8,039)
% increase = +11.02%

[uRound 6 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2014 = 59.174 (Avg: 8,453)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2013 = 63,482 (Avg: 9,069)
% decrease = -6.79%

[uRound 7 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2014 = 55,493 (Avg: 7,92icon_cool.gif
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2013 = 58,746 (Avg: 8,392)
% decrease = -5.54%

[uRound 8 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2014 = 65,161 (Avg: 9,309)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2013 = 73,890 (Avg: 10,556)
% decrease = -11.81%

[uRound 9 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2014 = 60,012 (Avg: 8,573)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2013 = 55,814 (Avg: 11,692)
% increase = +7.52%

[uRound 10 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2014 = 68,989 (Avg: 9,856)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2013 = 75,178 (Avg: 10,740)
% decrease = -8.23%

[uRound 11 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2014 = 65,872 (Avg: 9,410)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2013 = 64,275 (Avg: 9,182)
% increase = +2.48%

[uRound 12 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2014 = 43,998 (Avg: 6,285)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2013 = 48,131 (Avg: 6,876)
% decrease = -8.59%

[uRound 13 (MOONIE TRAGIC WEEKEND) Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2014 = 64,552 (Avg: 9,222)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2013 = 62,042 (Avg: 8,863)
% increase = +4.04%

[uRound 14 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2014 = 52,774 (Avg: 7,539)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2013 = 59,216 (Avg: 8,459)
% decrease = -10.88%

[uRound 15 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2014 = 46,134 (Avg: 6,591)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2013 = 47,814 (Avg: 6,831)
% decrease = -3.51%

[uRound 16 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2014 = 51,644 (Avg: 7,37icon_cool.gif
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2013 = 62,354 (Avg: 8,90icon_cool.gif
% decrease = -17.18%

[uRound 17 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2014 = 52,105 (Avg: 7,444)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2013 = 56,413 (Avg: 8,059)
% decrease = -7.64%

[uRound 18 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2014 = 64,595 (Avg: 9,22icon_cool.gif
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2013 = 75,100 (Avg: 10,729)
% decrease = -13.99%

[uRound 19 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2014 = 41,747 (Avg: 5,964)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2013 = 50,313 (Avg: 7,18icon_cool.gif
% decrease = -17.01%

[uRound 20 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2014 = 53,972 (Avg: 7,710)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2013 = 57,667 (Avg: 8,23icon_cool.gif
% decrease = -6.41%

[uRound 21 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2014 = 60,229 (Avg: 8,604)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2013 = 63,343 (Avg: 9,049)
% decrease = -4.92%

[uRound 22 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2014 = 48,617 (Avg: 6,945)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2013 = 52,563 (Avg: 7,509)
% decrease = -7.51%

[uRound 23 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2014 = 61,080 (Avg: 8,726)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2013 = 67,864 (Avg: 9,695)
% decrease = -10.00%

[uRound 24 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2014 = 41,951 (Avg: 5,993)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2013 = 47,481 (Avg: 6,783)
% decrease = -11.65%

[uRound 25 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2014 = 69,297 (Avg: 9,900)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2013 = 71,292 (Avg: 10,185)
% decrease = -2.80%

[uRounds 1 to 25 Fixtures (175 in total)[/u
Total attendance for 168 fixtures + 7 Tragic fixtures in 2014 = 1,424,333 (Avg: 8,139)
Total attendance for same 168 fixtures + 7 Tragic fixtures in 2013 = 1,499,752 (Avg: 8,570)
Cumulative attendance loss = -75,419
% decrease = -5.03%

Out of 168 fixtures played throughout the regular season in 2014, 64 out of 168 have shown an increase in attendance compared to the corresponding SL fixtures last year. 104 out of 168 fixtures have shown a decrease in attendance compared to the corresponding SL fixtures last year.

********************************************

4 SL clubs attendances are currently up on last season.
10 SL clubs attendances are currently down on last season.

[uClub... Games... 2014... 2013... %gain/loss[/u
Salford... 11... 52155... 34514... +51.11%
Castleford... 12... 82703... 74274... +11.35%
St Helens... 12... 143810... 132768... +8.32%
Hull KR... 12... 95610... 89566... +6.75%
Leeds... 13... 195880... 197556... -0.85%
Wigan... 11... 147400... 154052... -4.32%
Huddersfield... 11... 68747... 72051... -4.59%
Hull... 12... 131877... 139942... -5.76%
Widnes... 13... 73258... 78191... -6.31%
Warrington... 13... 128313... 138232... -7.18%
Catalans... 12... 93475... 101636... -8.08%
Bradford... 12... 79049... 103196... -23.40%
London... 12... 15426... 27334... -43.56%
Wakefield... 12... 52078... 94398... -44.83%
------------------------------------------------------------
Subtotal... 168... 1359781... 1437710... -5.42%
------------------------------------------------------------
Moonie/Tragic... 7... 64552... 62042... +4.04%
------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL... 175... 1424333... 1499752... -5.03%
***************************************************

[uCurrent Average Attendances V Same Fixtures Last Year[/u
[uClub... SL:2014... (SL:2013)[/u
Leeds... 15068... (15197)
Wigan... 13400... (14005)
St Helens... 11984... (11064)
Hull... 10989... (11662)
Warrington... 9870... (10633)
Hull KR... 7968... (7464)
Catalans... 7789... (8470)
Castleford... 6892... (6189)
Bradford... 6587... (8600)
Huddersfield... 6250... (6550)
Widnes... 5635... (6015)
Salford... 4741... (313icon_cool.gif
Wakefield... 4340... (7866)
London... 1286... (227icon_cool.gif

Average... 8094... (855icon_cool.gif

********************************************

[uSL Rounds 1 to 25 total attendances comparison (2009 to 2014)[/u
=#FF0000SL 2014 - 1,424,333 from 168 fixtures + 7 Tragic fixtures
SL 2013 - 1,499,752 from same 168 fixtures + 7 Tragic fixtures
SL 2012 - 1,670,614 from same 168 fixtures + 7 Tragic fixtures
SL 2011 - 1,555,988 from same 168 fixtures + 7 Tragic fixtures=#FF0000**
SL 2010 - 1,507,017 from same 168 fixtures + 7 Tragic fixtures=#FF0000**
SL 2009 - 1,535,120 from same 168 fixtures + 7 Tragic fixtures=#FF0000**

[uSL 2014 % decrease in attendances (V corresponding 168 fixtures + 7 Tragic fixtures)[/u
V SL 2013 = -5.03%
V SL 2012 = -14.74%
V SL 2011 = -8.46% =#FF0000**
V SL 2010 = -5.49% =#FF0000**
V SL 2009 = -7.22% =#FF0000**

[uSL 2014 attendance losses (V corresponding 168 fixtures + 7 Tragic fixtures)[/u
V SL 2013 = -75,419
V SL 2012 = -246,281
V SL 2011 = -131,655 =#FF0000**
V SL 2010 = -82,684 =#FF0000**
V SL 2009 = -110,787 =#FF0000**

[uSL regular season average attendances (V corresponding 168 fixtures + 7 Tragic fixtures)[/u
SL 2014 = 8,139
SL 2013 = 8,570
SL 2012 = 9,546
SL 2011 = 8,891 =#FF0000**
SL 2010 = 8,612 =#FF0000**
SL 2009 = 8,772 =#FF0000**

NOTE...=#FF0000** except replace Widnes with Crusaders

********************************************

Sky TV viewing figures haven't been mentioned for quite some time by the RFL, nor have they been reported by obedient RL media outlets so I've checked the viewing figures on the BARB website for clues.

Looking at the week-by-week viewing figures via BARB's Top 10 listings by channel, the current comparable viewing figures are as follows...

[u2014 - from w/e 9 Feb to w/e 17 Aug[/u
47 games made the Top 10 lists on the Sky Sports channels.
The total viewing figures were 6,356,000.
Average viewing figure per game televised = [u135K[/u

[u2013 - from w/e 3 Feb to w/e 18 Aug[/u
52 games made the Top 10 lists on the Sky Sports channels.
Total viewing figures were 7,914,000.
Average viewing figure per game televised = [u152K[/u

Average viewing figures on Sky in 2014 are therefore down by [u11.2%[/u compared to last season based upon the viewing figures available on the BARB website.

This may explain the current silence on viewing figures in more recent times in contrast to the large outbursts of positive RFL media spin regarding alleged record Sky viewing figures during the first few weeks of the season.

after all that effort i think it has been conclusively proven that PR teams will accentuate the good and minimise the bad news coming out.

Great Work on getting to the bottom of this mystery everyone!

Out of interest is there any information looking at the impact of Thursday night and Monday night games on attendances.

Anecdotally fans dont like these games.

If there is a drop how much is due to SKY interference around monday and thursday games.

In William i trust

Damn!

[uUPDATE on comparative Sky viewing figures[/u

[u2014 - from w/e 9 Feb to w/e 17 Aug[/u
47 games made the Top 10 lists on the Sky Sports channels.
The total viewing figures were 6,356,000.
Average viewing figure per game televised = [u135K[/u
DOWN [u11.2%[/u ON 2013

[u2013 - from w/e 3 Feb to w/e 18 Aug[/u
52 games made the Top 10 lists on the Sky Sports channels.
Total viewing figures were 7,914,000.
Average viewing figure per game televised = [u152K[/u
DOWN [u11.1%[/u on 2012

[u2012 - from w/e 5 Feb to w/e 19 Aug[/u
52 games made the Top 10 lists on the Sky Sports channels.
Total viewing figures were 8,871,000.
Average viewing figure per game televised = [u171K[/u

* Source - barb.co.uk

So RFL have managed to get a bigger tv deal with attendances and viewing figures tumbling. Well done RFL.

But the Championship (SL2) crowds will improve next season - won't they?