The fact that there are now more clubs playing nationwide than ever before...

You mean amateur , and yet this whole discussion is about the Championships ?

If you are going to change ' tack ' , at least tell us first

The OP said the game was dying outside of Super League. That is blatantly not the case. If there's one thing I hate it's Championship fans who claim that their teams represent the 'grassroots' when it suits, and then completely ignore and disrespct the genuine grassroots.

That aside, have you or the OP got any evidence that the game is 'dying' at Championship level?

As I pointed out , 4 pages in and hardly a mention of the sport below Championship 1 , you knew exactly what part of the game we were discussing , and no mention of ' grassroots ' either , so don't try to be clever you aren't fooling anybody

As for evidence , well almost all the attendances are down on last season , we have had the Fev chairman openly say that the lack of seasonal P and R is reducing interest in the sport at that level , it isn't the only reason , but it is making a difference to fan support and investement

Would you suggest it is ' thriving ' in Gateshead ? , they drew 162 fans for the visit of the SWS

If it isn't the RFL's very own Joseph Goebbels.

You want to know what's killing the Championship (thats assuming anything is, which I personally think is tosh) then its the championship clubs themselves.

As for the various "divisions" in Super League, then lets look at the Championship...and we can even assume we have P&R back again (hang on, isnt a team being promoted next season, seems to me we still have P&R)

You have teams that can win promotion, or can go bust trying to win it (lets say Leigh, Widnes)

Some that can have a hopeful punt but come up short

Then the rest, along for the numbers.

Neither Leigh or Widnes went bust because of getting promoted or relegated to or from SL

DO YOU UNDERSTAND

Can you point to a significant decrease in attendances at Championship level since licensing started, outside of normal fluctuation? Is this decrease enough to come to the conclusion that the game is 'dying'?

There is an expectation that "Championship clubs" should improve their facilities and infrastructure, have significant crowds and a modicum of on field success all on a relatively small budget for several years - yet it is unfair to expect a "Super league club" to even have to think about the impossible situation of being relegated to that same budget for even one year?

there were two choices, help make the gap between the divisions easier to bridge (despite several teams doing so in the past without any help) or cut the ties, franchises is a step toward that

there are at least two teams too many in the top division because the RFL couldn't get away with cutting that many clubs out from the top table, and there are teams outside the top division who meet the franchise criteria set. If there are more teams who meet the off field criteria than can fit in super league then the decision as to who gets those spaces should return to one made on the field.

When you are only drawing a few hundred , what is a ' significant ' decrease ?

The new clubs attendances are on their Harris , in the Championship they are down , even at Widnes they have dropped off in the last 3/4 years , at the moment Leighs are up , but with all the main ' draws ' having visited I expect our average to drop down from where it is

So you don't have any evidence to suggest the game is 'dying' then and your arguments are based solely on wishful thinking. Thanks for clearing that up.

If clubs are only drawing a couple of hundred then, as you say, they can't really get much worse. I seriously doubt the lack of P&R has anything to do with that.

So attendances are down , and if you speak to fans of Championship clubs , they tell you that interest is dropping off , that isn't evidence of problems ?

So unless the RFL announce it , it cannot be true

And yes if a club is only drawing a couple of hundred , it can get worse , very quickly , much quicker than at a club drawing thousands

No. 'Fans say so' has never, ever been evidence for anything and unfortunately this is all your argument comes down to. You are stating that the game is dying because you don't like the licensing process, I'm not accusing you of lying, you may believe this in your head, but as you have already admitted there is no empirical evidence whatsoever to support this claim. Your arguments are based on distorted ideas and biased thinking, and so are the arguments of many other fans who have decided that they don't like the licensing process for seemingly no other reason than because they are not intelligent enough to understand why it is needed.

Not really. Clubs like Gateshead are pretty much as low as they are going to get, clubs like that just need a complete overhaul from top to bottom. And as I said, this is completely incedental to any ideas about licensing or promotion and relegation.

Franchising and the so called 3 year time scale you have to build a team fit for super league is the biggest lie since a sign went up in germany in the 1940's which stated....work sets you free.

How can a team develop then keep hold of either coach or players they have spent time working with and on?

We have a salary cap which won't cover 2 super league players salarys for a season and in that figure you have to run a club,develop players as well.

Then if you actually do the above which leigh are doing this year,you sit and read about sl clubs coming in to pick off your players as you can't pay them anymore as the salary cap rules prevent it????

So please tell me how can a club like leigh[who are playing with no oversea players continue to build a team for super league were sl clubs can come and strip it bear??? over a 3 year period

Ah the experts say well if your good enough the fans will come flooding back in this 3 year period[true we have tempted 400 ish fans back but what do they think when either the players or coach they are watching vanish season after season???


Good luck in thinking the games in a great state because some bloke who now lives at lands ends as convinced 12 lads to play rugby league with his son one summer in there schools holidays,aye the games expanding like mad

Dont think theres a team at lands end but you can go tell the lads at Cov, Notts, Hemel, Sth London, Swindon, Valley Cougars that there wasting their time plus numerous other clubs i couldnt be bothered to type

Godwin?

You're not, you are building a team to win the Championship and or the lower leagues cup comp, only when you gain a SL place will you build for Super League, just as Widnes are doing now.

So basically exactly the same as before only you get an extra 2 months ?

Its working then

But we are trying to build a club for Super League. Unfortunately, given the constraints Championship clubs find themselves in, it is near-impossible to sustain any momentum for 3 years between licenses.

Widnes did it over the last three years because of Steve O'Connor's money, if they hadn't got in this time, the next three years would have even been difficult for them.

FFS, how hard is it to get through...




You are building a team to win the Championship, nothing more. 90% of a Championship winning team will not be good enough to play SL, you will once then sit back and run the club on a sound financial footing just like Widnes have done.



You have two months that the others on a Cat 3 licence haven't got and also the two and a half years of the franchise to build a team, not a few months. Means your team building can be done over a longer period rather than scraping a team together.

Difficult to build and keep a team because:

1/ You could win everything and still be refused entry by a backroom licensing decision, which couuld well boil down purely to a clubs geography. This uncertainty puts fans, players and coaches off and is a reason why crowds will never be big in NL1 as it stands.

2/ The long period to wait means you'll probably have your manager and best players nicked by SL clubs

Which if you dont get right from the start will result in you being stuck at the bottom of SL with ever dwindling attendances anyway ,

It doesn't work

Which is what you had with P&R, this way you get a chance to turn things round.

Like Quins are ?