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| Any appeal might end up wth a couple of tenners and a few paperclips - but at least we would have tried?
Not sure what the final count of fans pledging was - but from my match day group only 2 from 6 supported the pledge but they would be willing to stump up to provide some capital if the opportunity was there. Not a representative sample I know but there was a large number of posters here who held similiar views.
I know it's asking for more money - but the objective is clear to give the fans a stake in clubgoing forward - and if negotiations came to nothing then the club would go down the pan and there would be no need to call the money in.
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| Would it be worth getting the council involved? I remember back before we actually went into admin there were talks of the council willing to put forward about £800k in soft loans?
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| Quote ="debaser"Me? None. But I would also be willing to invest in a new club.
However, the vast majority would not. I am almost certain of that.'"
Maybe then we need to try and make sure that as many facts are in the public domain as possible, not just some of the partisan disineguous selective soundbites? So at least peoiple had the chance to form a more objective view?
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| Whats the point of being made to look like we just a charity case, all other clubs fans laughing at us for needing the handouts from wakey etc, we better than that.
I would rather save face and just go bust and start from scratch, if we gonna lose all players in a few g\mes and get demoted anyway then players arent gonna be bothered, they arent gonna bust a gut to get to playoffs and risk a career ending injury, if i waas them i woudl go through the motions, get hammered, get poaid off of wakey/salford etc, sign for wire on 150k a year and benefits then win stuff with them.
I`d rather fall on my sword now than wait for the axeman to get me instead.
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Lets start this with a few things we've been told/know
1. The SLE expect a quick sale
2. The overall debt is circa 1.5 million, to stay where we are (super league) we'd have to clear that at the very least
3. The business is running at a loss, therefor we'd need to raise more money each month either as fans or through investors
The pledge reminds us all of the time where we were able to raise 1/2 million through the rugby league family. To raise another significant sum is going to be a challenge and the following would need to be considered
* If a quick sale is expected, I would hazard a guess we have 4 weeks or less to get this pledge system up and running and then come up with a figure that we can raise
* There needs to be a facility to get the money in i.e. people ringing people asking for payment within a short period of time
* A way to take payment
* Legal obligations reviewed and resolved in terms of anybody raising a significant sum potentially using the supporters trust
What would fans expect for their money, this time people won't put money in unless they know there going to get something back for it. Surely we don't want to put ourselves back in the position of having thousands of shareholders which turned out to be a barrier for sale, we also know people with money will want complete control of the club. I know people will point out that BullBuilder could be the owner, but would people be happy that BullBuilder is effectively the owner of the club and they apart from being members with the potential to be on the board they have very little other involvement?
People hold Rochdale up as an example of fan ownership, perhaps it's not all it's cracked up to be? www.loverugbyleague.com/news_981 ... rnets.html
I think in a perfect world all fans would love to know that there club is owned by the fans, for the fans. In reality it's a little more challenging that it sounds, and in the main people want the fans to buy the club as long as there not the one doing the work.
Although it's not to say it's impossible, with the timescales, the fact fans have already "pledged", we're starting from nothing......it's improbable
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Lets start this with a few things we've been told/know
1. The SLE expect a quick sale
2. The overall debt is circa 1.5 million, to stay where we are (super league) we'd have to clear that at the very least
3. The business is running at a loss, therefor we'd need to raise more money each month either as fans or through investors
The pledge reminds us all of the time where we were able to raise 1/2 million through the rugby league family. To raise another significant sum is going to be a challenge and the following would need to be considered
* If a quick sale is expected, I would hazard a guess we have 4 weeks or less to get this pledge system up and running and then come up with a figure that we can raise
* There needs to be a facility to get the money in i.e. people ringing people asking for payment within a short period of time
* A way to take payment
* Legal obligations reviewed and resolved in terms of anybody raising a significant sum potentially using the supporters trust
What would fans expect for their money, this time people won't put money in unless they know there going to get something back for it. Surely we don't want to put ourselves back in the position of having thousands of shareholders which turned out to be a barrier for sale, we also know people with money will want complete control of the club. I know people will point out that BullBuilder could be the owner, but would people be happy that BullBuilder is effectively the owner of the club and they apart from being members with the potential to be on the board they have very little other involvement?
People hold Rochdale up as an example of fan ownership, perhaps it's not all it's cracked up to be? www.loverugbyleague.com/news_981 ... rnets.html
I think in a perfect world all fans would love to know that there club is owned by the fans, for the fans. In reality it's a little more challenging that it sounds, and in the main people want the fans to buy the club as long as there not the one doing the work.
Although it's not to say it's impossible, with the timescales, the fact fans have already "pledged", we're starting from nothing......it's improbable
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| It would really need two people to be in place to get it off the ground:
1 A high profile figurehead to provide the public face of the new club ie a Chairman
2 Someone who understands how a professional RL club works and is prepared to put in the hours and who could guide a supporters trust ie a CEO
Without those people in place any discusssion of raising money would be academic.
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| Quote ="Cibaman"It would really need two people to be in place to get it off the ground:
1 A high profile figurehead to provide the public face of the new club ie a Chairman
2 Someone who understands how a professional RL club works and is prepared to put in the hours and who could guide a supporters trust ie a CEO
Without those people in place any discusssion of raising money would be academic.'"
Saved me typing precisely that.
Third one you would need is a good hands-on accountant.
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| I will keep this simple!
The RFL are a joke!
For the sake of rugby league in England, SLE must not be allowed to own the Bulls.
If SLE are going to pay the wages of the bulls players then the same amount of money should be given to every single SL club.
The RFL have dug themselves a hole and the rest of the SL clubs have to dig them out!!!
This is a joke, the RFL board need sacking and replacing with monkeys, I am sure monkeys could do the job as good as the current mod!!!!!!
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| Quote ="Adeybull"Saved me typing precisely that.
Third one you would need is a good hands-on accountant.'"
Get the sales pitch in early, eh Adey?
For the record, I imagine that we could do a lot, lot worse and most clubs probably do.
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| Quote ="FONT"I will keep this simple!
The RFL are a joke!
For the sake of rugby league in England, SLE must not be allowed to own the Bulls.
If SLE are going to pay the wages of the bulls players then the same amount of money should be given to every single SL club.
The RFL have dug themselves a hole and the rest of the SL clubs have to dig them out!!!
This is a joke, the RFL board need sacking and replacing with monkeys, I am sure monkeys could do the job as good as the current mod!!!!!!'"
Really? I take it it's giro day in East Hull today, so the crystal meth dealers are doing a roaring trade.
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| Quote ="Stul"Really? I take it it's giro day in East Hull today, so the crystal meth dealers are doing a roaring trade.'"
Just the kind of response I expected.
I take it you are happy to sponge of the whole of SL?
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| Quote ="debaser"Me? None. But I would also be willing to invest in a new club.
However, the vast majority would not. I am almost certain of that.'"
and on the other hand, I did not pledge as i thought it was just a stay of execution, and the captain steering the ship didn't fill me with confidence it would be used in the clubs best interests.
This scenario is totally different.
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| Quote ="FONT"Just the kind of response I expected.
I take it you are happy to sponge of the whole of SL?'"
Not if it means we have to associate with people such as you.
Anyway, another cretin to go on ignore.
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| Quote ="Stul"Not if it means we have to associate with people such as you.
Anyway, another cretin to go on ignore.'"
So someone objects to your club being given preference and you label them “a cretin”
I have lost the little faith I had in the RFL and all the respect I had for Bradford Bulls, how could you all look at yourselves in the mirror if this went ahead?
Please, someone see sense, this is wrong on so many levels!
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| Quote ="FONT"So someone objects to your club being given preference and you label them “a cretin”
I have lost the little faith I had in the RFL and all the respect I had for Bradford Bulls, how could you all look at yourselves in the mirror if this went ahead?
Please, someone see sense, this is wrong on so many levels!'"
It's a clear conflict of interest.
It's a waste of money to avoid the problem of an unbalanced fixture list.
It's also neither our decision or fault and it's really a pity there isn't an rfl board on these forums where you could go and vent your righteous anger.
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| Quote ="FONT"So someone objects to your club being given preference and you label them “a cretin”
I have lost the little faith I had in the RFL and all the respect I had for Bradford Bulls, how could you all look at yourselves in the mirror if this went ahead?
Please, someone see sense, this is wrong on so many levels!'"
No one actually objects to your opinions, it's just the place you air them. If you have a problem with decisions made by SLE or the RFL they have perfectly good websites with the option of contacting them. Have you not considered that as your first option, rather than bothering us, who I really shouldn't need to remind you, have NOTHING TO DO WITH THESE DECISIONS'
Please don't reply, as you are now on 'ignore'.
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| Quote ="Bulliac"No one actually objects to your opinions, it's just the place you air them. If you have a problem with decisions made by SLE or the RFL they have perfectly good websites with the option of contacting them. Have you not considered that as your first option, rather than bothering us, who I really shouldn't need to remind you, have NOTHING TO DO WITH THESE DECISIONS'
Please don't reply, as you are now on 'ignore'.'"
i think people (fans of other clubs) are blowing this out of proportion as i understand it havent SLE just bought it to give you longer to find a buyer and you will probably still end up in the championship anyway its just a way to stop you going bust
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| Quote ="fun time frankie"i think people (fans of other clubs) are blowing this out of proportion as i understand it havent SLE just bought it to give you longer to find a buyer and you will probably still end up in the championship anyway its just a way to stop you going bust'"
Pretty much, as far as I understand it. We've not heard if it's been accepted anyway, so far as I know.
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| Quote ="fun time frankie"i think people (fans of other clubs) are blowing this out of proportion as i understand it havent SLE just bought it to give you longer to find a buyer and you will probably still end up in the championship anyway its just a way to stop you going bust'"
Thank you for reminding us that almost all fans of other clubs can be perfectly normal.
I just can't fathom why they would go to all of this trouble to leave us as a Championship club - with the reduced rent for Odsal that would surely follow (I'm not saying they shouldn't - I just don't see why they would).
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| But for all the talk, unless there is considerable investment and influence we will be in the Championship next season. We must accept that this is the rightful punishment for the mismanagement of our club over many years.
Norman
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| Quote ="NormanNorman"But for all the talk, unless there is considerable investment and influence we will be in the Championship next season. We must accept that this is the rightful punishment for the mismanagement of our club over many years.
Norman'"
Thought our 6 point deduction was our "rightful" punishment? And none of it is the fans fault, or the players, yet they seem to be the ones getting punished.
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| I wish that was the case and if we had been 'saved' sooner then perhaps the 6 points is a fair punishment. As it stands however we are practically in liquidation due to many many years of overspending and only surviving at all due to the goodwill of the staff and the actions of the other RL clubs.
Unfortunately 6 points is this season's 'punishment' only and unless things dramatically change very soon, we will have to rebuild in the Championship.
It will be sickening to lose some of our best players (particularly the local talent that we have produced) but I have no doubt that if the majority of the core fan base sticks with the club then we will be back near the top of Super League within the next 10 years.
NormanNorman
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| Quote ="Stul"Thank you for reminding us that almost all fans of other clubs can be perfectly normal.
I just can't fathom why they would go to all of this trouble to leave us as a Championship club - with the reduced rent for Odsal that would surely follow (I'm not saying they shouldn't - I just don't see why they would).'"
By doing this they have control of how far you drop, if nobody is interested in buying the club outside SL and you drop to Championship 1 ( playing Hemel,Northampton,Skolars ) next year potentially held together with some form of supporters trust, you could easily disapear completely, and I doubt you would be able to afford any rent at all for odsal .
However if your newco owners are SLE/RFL, they can put you in the Championship playing small but recognised names such as Leigh,Fev,Barrow,Batley, even potentially Halifax ( if Toulouse get the nod to replace you ) , this would help to retain a sizeable portion of your fan base ( they hope ) and allow you to ' tread water ' until a buyer is found and probably allow you to pay a reduced but still significant rent to keep RL at Odsal, in theory they could take a loan out for the lease purchase and charge you the interest
They cannot finance you as a SL club, it would be a massive conflict of interest
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| Quote ="NormanNorman"I wish that was the case and if we had been 'saved' sooner then perhaps the 6 points is a fair punishment. As it stands however we are practically in liquidation due to many many years of overspending and only surviving at all due to the goodwill of the staff and the actions of the other RL clubs.
Unfortunately 6 points is this season's 'punishment' only and unless things dramatically change very soon, we will have to rebuild in the Championship.
It will be sickening to lose some of our best players (particularly the local talent that we have produced) but I have no doubt that if the majority of the core fan base sticks with the club then we will be back near the top of Super League within the next 10 years.
NormanNorman'"
Though this thread was for highjacked for a while by some numpties it was building some positive ideas for the future but the key now is for quick actions otherwise its not just a question of which league we play in, but if there is to be a team representing Bradford in any of the leagues in the coming years. The sooner you apply a bandage to an injury the better to stop further bleeding - in our case of players, staff and fans
PS - Have you joined Bullbuilder yet?
PPS - I am not on commision, but even if I was it would go straight into the hardship fund
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| What does the future hold? I don't know. The SLE buys us some time, not a lot. The people in the know seem to think we will lose players when the new company exists, maybe we will. Maybe we do have to rebuild and if so we will do it again. The important thing is we have a club to rebuild, but something has to happen quickly. How can we rebuild if we don't know which league we will be in and therefore what the budget will be.
But there must surely be a plan because if we go into liquidation how does SLE/RFL get its money back?
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