I’m going to come right out with it and ask

“Are Bullbuilder/supporters interested in purchasing and running the Bulls?”

It appears there is now opportunity to look into this and if rumours are believed this would be a VERY favourable outcome in the RFL’s eyes.......

Already said that i'd help financially

Yes in my case but would suggest that if a SL place is the objective then the amounts involved would probably need some sort of consortium.

And to give the fans body a real voice and influence then you would think a mechanism such as fans join and donate to BB ( or ano body) - who then take a stake in the new club. That way you have a democratic fans body with a single sharehoiding and influence. And no the fans shouldn't be voting on the weekly team but backing proper skilled management - and you would hope any potential new shareholder would adopt the same approach.

I would think if SL was the objective you would need to at least match the pledge amount - and then need fans to stump up a realistic season ticket price soon after. But if you could mobilse several thousand supporters - which is a big ask in these times - then the individual contribution becomes more manageable. If you think fans gave nearly £0.5m on blind trust then who knows what you could raise with some clear aims and objectives?

I'm sure YOU could buy us mate!!!

Hope all is good with you and yours

BullBuilder has approximately 200 members. To achieve any kind of takeover, a mass-membership organisation would be required. To stay in SL, any such organisation would have to clear £1.5 million in debt, and obtain income at least to match the perceived shortfall of £100K per month that we have suffered. Bear in mind that if the supporters were contributing this, it would be on top of any season ticket payments. If we were to get it through commercial sources, there would have to be considerable expertise within the organisation to obtain this.

In lower divisions, obviously there would be less finance to raise, and other trust-run clubs suggest a possibility. However, people would need to come forward who have the time and expertise to carry out massive amounts of hard work.

In the meeting with BullBuilder, this did not seem to be high up Blake Solly's agenda - he seemed focused on, and confident about, attracting a buyer.

I feel the most practical solution would be to get involved with such a buyer and press for supporter representation and involvement, as Northern Relic suggests. This could come in a number of ways, and does not necessarily involve financial contribution from the fans: all that would depend on the profile of the buyer.

However, as indicated in other press releases, discussion of such involvement will be a high priority for BullBuilder when a new (permanent) ownership structure emerges.

Eh? How has this brand new organisation, which doesn't yet exist, got itself into £1.5m debt?

or has RFL/SLE made it plain that they won't sell unless someone reimburses them their deal with the administrator? If so, they may be looking a long time.


Well, anyone wanting to stay in business needs over a year to get in as much as they pay out, but income for a rugby club is erratic, and most of it is season tickets. There is no other income to speak of, save the Sky money which I should think is well in hock already, so in the interim some funding would definitely be required, and it would need to be raised in very short order.


... that would be at the same time as squadrons of pigs flew over Odsal




Exactly, either somehow you conjure up pots of money on an ongoing basis to pay highly paid people to run it, or you rely on skilled wellwishers who are prepared to give up their day job and do the jobs for nothing.


Yes, I find that strange. I live in hope, but personally can't see it happening.


That's good news, but surely a buyer, in the debatable event one acceptable to all parties now surfaces, will want to be an owner. Would they want to answer to a fans organisation in any significant way? Engaging with the fans is one thing, but giving them any real power or say would be another.

Giving fans power sounds brilliant, but as we all know 'fans' are not some homogenous group with a single idea, they are very diverse and have more views than you can shake a stick at. I think anyone looking at this board would soon realise that fans rarely agree on anything..

Better leaving the decision making to the experts, imo; though I'm just one fan and, of course other fans will, no doubt, disagree

Can't run any commercial organisation effectively by committee.

Anyone who says things to the effect of "Bullbuilder should..." or "Why aren't Bullbuilder..." should maybe first consider that "Bullbuilder" is run, on behalf of its members, by a small group of volunteers, all with (busy) day jobs and/or other responsibilities. On my own account, for example, I have been so busy with work that I am conscious that over the very busy recent days I have not been able to give my colleagues the level of input I would have liked - especially given the numerous meetings that have been held. We can all only do what we can, and the amount of work my colleagues have got through, and the progress made over the last few weeks - in their spare time or taking time out from work (which can have consequences) and much being behind the scenes - has been immense.

For those who believe Bullbuilder should be doing yet more at this time, speaking purely in a personal capacity I would firstly ask that you join, if you have not already done so, and then let the board know what you are in a position to do to help bring that about? Same as any voluntary organisatiuon, the more volunteers there are, the more it can achieve.

Alls good at moment, only bad thing is this mess with the bulls.

The RFL hasn't "made it plain" that they won't grant an SL deal to a buyer that doesn't honour old debts - but they certainly gave strong hints in that direction.


I was thinking of a situation in which fans undertake to stump up the shortfall by monthly subscription or similar. Some have suggested that there would be a mass appetite for this. I disagree, and was attempting to counsel caution with regard to that idea


I didn't suggest that "real power" was the only option on the agenda. There may be a wide spectrum of possibilities for engagement and representation, depending on the buyer, possibly including real power - but more likely not.

It seems to be that these are the two questions that need to be asked -

1. What is the total amount of money that Bulls fans would be prepared to put into Bullbuilder as a one-off sum?
2. What is the total amount that Bulls fans would be prepared to commit to paying to Bullbuilder each month.

I think these totals could be significant if Bullbuilder was able to use them to support and exercise influence on the club. Whether they would be enough to make this a practical option, I do not know.

Have Supporters Direct been contacted for advice?

Bullbuilder has been in regular dialogue and held meetings with the single SD official who has responsibility for the whole of RL.

SD themselves have a problem in that they have lost or are losing all their RL funding. That is a separate issue that RL supporters will need to address and lobby over.

So the question is could a consortium of fans and business interests be put together that could raise the funds to make a bid of sufficient magnitude to give the club a chance of retaining its position in SL? - or would a more realistic target be to raise the cash to have a Bradford RL team in one of the lower leagues - lower financial hurdle to jump - but than I guess also less support and interest?

I see and agree with the points above about not being able to run a club by committee and this would clearly not be practical, and equally fans becoming lots of small individual shareholders would have not effective influence. So I was suggesting that a fans organisation - say BB as they are already set up - buy a stake for it's members as a whole. Having some potential funding to bring to the table would also give it more influence in negotiations. But there is a pressing need to get some professional management lined up pretty dam quick if any sort of team is to be in place for next season.

So now is the time to finally test what and how much interest and cash the fan base will put where its collective mouth is - maybe a pledge type scheme so no money need change hands if there isn't a deal to be done but at least whoever represents the fans would know what their hand was. I might be being dewy eyed but if some group did manage to get an offer together including a contribution from hopefully a large number of fans than it would be politically harder to - shall we say find "unacceptable" conditions in the offer?

Bingo!

Is it possible for a company/group of fans to buy a current 51% stake in the Bulls and run with SLE moving forward?? Why does it have to be 100% stake?

I'm pretty sure all the noises from the RFL are positive towards fan involvement, as pointed out above it may not involve £1.5m to "save" the club and keep in SL.

Question - Are Bullbuilder willing to move forward with fan based ownership whether in a consortia or in their own right if their members deem so? Ability is another matter and appreciate what is said about volunteers etc...

FYI I currently sit on a committee for another sport organisation, over 2500 members and a turnover of £100k per annum and it works really well - again appreciate that the numbers involved are a factor of 10 at least out but it shows what can be done on a voluntary basis

What do you mean by "are BullBuilder willing..."? Do you mean the committee or the members? Anything like this would have to come from a substantial number (the majority) of the members, not from the committee, and certainly not from outsiders making noises about what an organisation they never bothered to join in the first place [ishould[/i be doing (general comment - [unot[/u aimed at you or other individuals in particular). There has been no such groundswell from the members.

If there were such a groundswell, certainly most of the current committee would not be able to take it forward - but that's a different issue.

Would certainly be enlightening if we knew whether the people shouting loudest for bullbuilders involvement are actually members?. Problem is most people dont advertise whether there a member or not apart from those who use the bullbuilder logo as their tagline. E.G. I'm a member but you wouldnt know it from looking on RLFans.

Why not have a word with Feisal Nabahoo at Probiz, he is desperate to own a Super League team and could get u on the cheap

If only word of a SL club being for sale could somehow have reached someone desperate to buy a SL club. Did he not have enough notice?

Question: Are you a member? If so, are you willing to volunteer your services - on an ongoing and regular basis - to help bring this about? And are you prepared to commit your services for at least the medium term, once the initial riush of publicity is over and the hard, greinding yards need to be made?

If you are, we need to hear from you.

Indeed. But that is not to say there is any lack of ability. Far from it. My personal view is that the range of ability and enthiusiasm and skills represented acros the Bullbuilder board is quite exceptional, and would make a pretty decent management team of a commercial business. And its a group of people I have been very proud to work with and be a small part of.

No, the issue would be the time commitment; and I guess the motivation, especially when the brickbats started flying, as they inevitably would.

I assume that bull builder is run along the lines of a membership association so the members need to vote to agree rule change - assume its in the constitution? I did qualify my question with if the members so deemed

Just for the record I am a member, and if I am honest should have joined years ago - so apologies for my shortsightedness.

The work the organisation does and it objectives are clear and will hopefully still be required for years to come as a active youth policy is both one of the reasons we have had a better year on the pitch and will always be needed for a sustainable long term future even if we did have a wealthy backer - which we don't.

I could well be wrong but feel there are still a large number of fans in Bradford who - according to their means - would like to maintain a vibrant RL club in the city and though it would be nice to be in SL i think many just want to have a Bradford team to support. At the moment most of us just feel like bystanders watching a car crash and are looking for a mechanism to help both practically and financially. BB is already set up so it seems a logical structure to channel the fans interest through?

So two questions:

1) Would BB members be willing for the organisation to be used to facilitate a potential fans investment in the club?
2) If you haven't joined BB already why not? The annual fee is only £10 - which is cheap even by recent season ticket standards!

The other points about BB is that it is a one member on vote organisation - so as a vehicle for fans - who will have widely varying means its a vehicle which would allow people to contribute to the cause as they are able but to have a equal say with all the other members; and that it is already in existence so cutting the tinme required to set up an organsation from scratch when time is at a premium already.

Guys - don't get tetchy, I'm asking valid questions no way design to incite and ridicule, more to prode and poke the boundaries of what is possible

Not yet I am not a member, at present the future of the club will decide if Bullbuilder continues to exist in its presnt guise, no SL, no academy, no Bullbuilder???? Can see little point investing into something that shortly could become defunct

I think my committment is summed with sitting on another sporting committee on a voluntary basis......

If Bull builder are willing to be a vehicle into supporter ownership of the Bulls I would gladly volunteer my services and expertise (if needed/applicable)

Correct - hence my comment about a majority of members (or technically, I suppose, a majority of members who vote).

Sorry to labour the point, but it's important.

If someone as generally committed and presumably able as you is not a member, what does it say about the likelihood of the mass of individuals joining that would be required to make something like this work?