Of the ruck area, Wigan are getting slaughtered around the ruck with penalty after penalty and Salford got something similar on friday, maybe the days of Wrestlemania are coming to a close .... or maybe it's just an off-day, who knows with the standard of reffing were used too.

Funny, warrington seem to be doing plenty of lying on.

I'd disagree. Warrington are winning the ruck and Wigan are having to play at Warrington's speed, normally this doesn't happen as Wigan control that area of the field (using wrestling tactics) hence the mean defence. I will hasten to add as I dont want to turn this thread into another Saints V Wigan thread that Wigan are not the only team who do this , they just do it more effectively than most

It still ebbs and flows with slow play the balls though.

Both sides guilty at times.

Anyone who gets a quick play the ball against the pies will trouble them.

We know the exscuse already, Wembley took it out of them last week.

Why wasn't the kick by Sam Tomkins a 8 point try?

The ref called Sam Tomkins out and told him he'd kicked after the ball had been put down so it was a penalty.

I think gaz hocks season is over.

More disgusting thuggish behaviour by Wigan.

Lets see how they deal with Hock and the "eye gouge" it looked very poor on TV

Im sure a Quins player just got six games for biting and IMO gouging is a lot worse as it can blind a player.

Eye gouge is the worst thing a player can do.

I think it was because he scored so the incident happened when the ball wasnt in play technically. in reality it was like Hock's a show of petulance because the game was gone.

Exactly, Wigan have based there success on a tight defence which they have because they control the ruck with wrestling. It's easy to defend when you have a set line and the game is played at a snails pace until they get the ball and turn up the tempo

Probably issue an apology on their website. That suffices apparently.

I agree I've never seen anything like it. It carries a minimum grade E-F charge and should result in his year being over.

The saints game at the DW was the same, in the periods of the game the ref didn't let the pies mess about at the play the ball we got on top.

The fast PTB is a killer for the pies.

"Have the ref's finally got a grip?" No! There's nothing to get a grip of. Wigan were well beaten today and deservedly so. We were well of the pace, and as a consequence of that couldn't effect our usual game plan. It happens.

Quick PTB's are a killer for any side.

On a side note looks like we'll meet again in two weeks time. Can't wait!

Neither can I , especially if we get a decent ref who cuts out all the niggly holding down. I think Wigan tried to prosecute there normal game plan but were hammered by the ref ... long may it continue.

Whislt I admire the proficiency with which Wigan can slow the PTB down, refs have to draw the line between "winning the floor/wrestle/collision" and cynical spoling tactics. The penalty against Hoffman when he tried to clamp the players arm in a position so he couldn't get up was a good example of the ref doing this.

spot on , the aussies got that good at it (like Wigan to be fair) that they introduced 2 refs .. maybe we should be doing the same?

Pretty good idea if you ask me. We have one of the quickest teams in the league. Imagine how devastating Tomkins would be if he had quick PTB's to play off?

Rogues would be in tears