What did anyone think of the team performance last night?
Given that the opposition was weak, I thought Leeds played very well.
They looked lean, as if everyone had shed half a stone or more and played fast slick attacking rugby whilst generally defending well.
I think we're in for a great season.
FWIW this is my summary of each player last night.

1. Zak Hardaker had a good game and showed some real class, especially when bringing the ball out of defence.
20. Tom Briscoe looked like a very good buy and his pairing with Kallum should bring us plenty of tries.
3. Kallum Watkins. Showed real class and lightening speed, I only hope we can keep him.Really exciting player.
4. Joel Moon. I've always liked, even before he signed for us.Last night he too showed real class.
5. Ryan Hall. Nothing more to say, he's Mr Reliable.
6. Danny McGuire Was a real eye opener. He looked much quicker and sharper than last year,I think we can forget all those worries we had last year.
13. Kevin Sinfield (c) Missed 1st 3 easyish goals then kicked a couple of really tough ones.Captain fantastic.
10. Jamie Peacock. Was Jamie Peacock....he'll play forever.
7. Rob Burrow. Don't like him at hooker but that what he's asked to do and does it as well as most.Made at least one try saving tackle.
16. Ryan Bailey.He does what he wants and last night, he did it very well.
15. Brett Delaney. Would always be my choice for any team.Mr 100%.Last night was no exception.
12. Carl Ablett See comment re Brett Delaney.
9. Paul Aiton I thought he looked out classed by the rest of the team and didn't really impress me.Time will tell.
23. Brad Singleton. GREAT! GREAT!GREAT! there's not much to worry about in the front row whilst this young man is available for selection. A future international without doubt,IMO
8.Kylie Leuluai Looked a bit slimmer and faster than last year, again, Mr 100%
19. Mitch Achurch Looked more part of the team than last year and I think this may be his year to fulfill the promise he showed in patches last year.
2. Ben Jones-Bishop Scored 3 tries and seemed to be saying, I'm here to stay.If you want my spot you'll have to be very very good. On the wing, or at full back,I don't think I've seen him play better.Well done BJB.
18. Chris Clarkson Had a very good game and took his tries well.Another one who I think may prove his doubters wrong this year.
21. Liam Sutcliffe I'm sorry but this young man fails to impress me.I'm never sure what position/roll he's got in the team.I hope I'm wrong because the rest of the youngsters I've seen show some real class for their ages.
I only hope we can play this way against the better teams.
Can't wait for the big kick off.

Yup, JJB was particularly effective last night I thought.

Hard to tell properly given the opposition but we did look sharpe in terms of fitness considering how many hadn't played yet. Thought we did play quite quick but then again they'll be teams who slow the PTB down and win collisions much better than London. Handling was good considering the weather, was expecting a knock-on-athon but we went ok in that department.

Forwards were sound, Clarkson has edged past Achurch for me in the two games I've seen this week and if JJB and/or Ward aren't available for HKR then Clarkson comes in. Had some worries about Leuluai after his disinterested showing at Hunslet but was better last night but Singleton has moved ahead of him IMO.

Aiton I think did well. He looked sound in attack after a couple of iffy first passes and more importantly sured up the defence in the middle which will be invaluable to taking the workload off the forwards.

Burrow did have a good game in both hooker and the halves when Sinfield departed. McGuire too looked good and sharpe. Hardaker looked very keen to impress I thought and played like someone with a point to prove. Briscoe looked a constant threat and hard working and BJB took his tries with the skill we already knew he had.

It's no coincidence that the ones listed in the above paragraph as the stand-outs are our more elusive players given the opposition on offer. BJB took his tries well but he won't be facing such poor defence every week. For me I'd go for Briscoe and Hall on the wings. It's tough on BJB but for the reasons we already knew about, the latter two offer more bringing the ball back from kick returns against strong set defences, look sounder under the high ball and better defence as well as being quality finishers themselves. One thing of note was that the right side throughout last night seemed to be the more targeted area in attack. I think teams are still over compensating trying to cover the threat we have on the left side that we seem to have more space on the right.

The question now going into the opener is who plays Loose if both Ward and JJB are missing? I'd go....

Hardaker
Briscoe - Watkins - Moon - Hall
Sinfield - McGuire
Singleton - Aiton - Peacock
Delaney - Ablett
Bailey

Burrow - Leuluai - Clarkson - Achurch/Sutcliffe(used as a back rower)

Anyone see the Broncos kicking tee man's OCD problem when Broncos kicked off?

Hard to determine too much against such weak opposition. Still some periods in the game where we switched off and got sloppy (10-15 minutes towards the end of the first half) but some excellent execution on the right edge in particular.

Thought it was an opportunity set up for Sutcliffe to shine when Sinfield went off, but he didn't grasp it. It's so obvious when he isn't going to take the line on, he just stands and passes as soon as he receives the ball. Needs to at least go straight, fix the line and then look to pass if he's going to.

Although he didn't get much game time last night I saw him against Hunslet and was also concerned that he doesn't look close to being a 6 yet.

His performance there was more similar to Watkins, he could run at the right side and could either get past them and go with good footwork or then pass to the guy outside him. Away from that one channel he wasn't a presence around the rest of the pitch.

We saw similar in his run in the first team last year but apparently according to some of the usual suspects on here McDermott planned this so he didn't shine too much so that "bringing Sinfield back would be easier."

Note for the OP Jjb didn't play!!!
I thought we saw some good scores with the backs showing the explosive potential they have when given quality ball.
The pack remain a concern for me although I thought Clarkson did himself no harm looking to claim Jjb's BR spot should he miss the start of the season.
It was good to blow the cob-webs off before the trip to Portugal and there were plenty of positives to take from the game.
Depending on fitness for HKR I'd expect the Coach to go with...
Hardaker
Briscoe
Watkins
Moon
Hall
Sinfield
McGuire
JP
Burrow
Bailey
Delaney
Ablett
Singleton

Leuluai
Aiton
Achurch
Clarkson

Personally I'd start with Aiton at 9 with either Burrow at 7 and Mags on the Bench or vice versa and start Clarkson at 13 with Singleton as interchange Prop.

Not having a go but genuinely want to know why based on that showing (or any other reason other than "too old"icon_wink.gif why the pack concerns you? We potentially have Singleton making the starting 13 over Leuluai and whilst people might highlight Peacock's age, they might want to remember he was just pipped to MOS in 2013 and was the best forward in the competition last year. Ablett and Delaney are late 20's.....a good, if not perfect, age in RL. Ward can hopefully add to the backrow upon return from injury.

If we get injuries to key starters then yes we're in trouble.......but the same can be said of any team. If not then they really couldn't have been 'key' all along. Some seem to be adamant that we'll suffer huge with injuries whilst others around us will be fine.

It just seems to me as if some posters are on Auto-Pilot of saying "Forwards concern me" without really thinking it through further than just coming up with an "too old" answer.

I think you answer your own question in paragraph one in just one line, about just one player. It all relies on Peacock, plain and simple. An injury to him, and it isn't worth considering.

Never actually said it relies on him. I actually highlighted Singleton, Ablett, Delaney and Ward too. Is he the key player in the pack? Yes......but look at any team (in any sport) and they have key players they would dearly miss. The salary cap doesn't allow for you to have a spare Peacock in reserve in case he gets injured. We aren't Man City with a wealth of reserves on stanby and could never be with the structures of the sport.

Take Peacock and Sinfield out and yes we will be doomed. Same can be said for O'Loughlin and McIlorum, Brough and Crabtree, Hill and Myler, Roby and Lomax.

Peacock (or others like JJB, Leuluai, Delaney) MIGHT have an injury hit year.....but that some have already confirmed/accepted it as a guarantee is a massive guess based on last years events. If going by 2013 should we also expect BJB to get a serious illness too?

That I mentioned that we have the best forward of 2013 in our team alongside these others encourages me......on the other hand it seems to send the fear of god among some people for some reason I can only assume is part of the pre-set doom that they've said will happen for near on a decade now.

We have the best prop of 2013 at our club.....
Glass half full crowd = "great, what an advantage to our club."
Glass half empty crowd = "damn, he'll get injured and we'll be screwed because we don't have another MOS-esque prop at our salary capped club.

"He might get injured".....yes and so might any other player who takes the field in SL this year, for Leeds or Wigan or Wire or Hudds or Saints or anyone.

Printer-Lets get one thing perfectly clear i'm as optimistic as anyone attend most games win lose or draw all this "us and them" is tedious and boring now.
I genuinely believe on our day we can beat anyone in this League and can certainly make both finals if luck goes our way along with performing to our undoubted potential.
Every single opinion i form (team wise etc) is based on seeing the games ,looking at the squad especially depth and also the Coaching ,defence/offence structure etc.
Am i claiming to be always right or looking for some sort of points scoring tit-for-tat sh##e? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
JP carried this pack last year and is a "one -off" RL Legend and as i've posted many many times i rate Singleton highly but given how we performed or more importantly how experienced players performed when hit the injuries for me it remains a concern.
Now not for one minute have i nor have seen anyone else post that we expect to have a squad of forwards in the calibre of JP or that we expect elite performances week in week out from them.
kylie imo his form dipped after a strong start and whether you agree or not i think his age is an issue not every game but noticeable ,kirke remans again imo not good enough ,Bailey last year was awful his worse season at Leeds imo.
Jjb/Delaney are both imo very good BR's but both are and were battered whilst selected many times carrying injuries that blatantly meant they shouldn't be out there.
Ablett suffered loss of form over a number of games ,Clarkson had no impact in the little gametime he saw.
Ward unfortunately picked up a serious knock and Achurch was in and out of the team and picked up some tough injuries.
Now hopefully luck wise it will change but i still think we lack Another tough 1st 17 prop ala Kylie when he first joined ,as well as a destructive offloading BR (maybe Achurch).
Then again there's the rotation issue i dont care what trophies we won during 2/3 of the last years the Caoch imo blatantly got his selections and rotations wrong last year and our reliance on JP to carry the pack is gonna bite us again its my own opinion.

In this game Singleton reminded me of a young James Graham, I hope he continues like that.

The thing is Printer you moved from the question "why there is a concern about our pack" to something completely different.

You are correct that injuries can happen, you have a point on the examples you gave. But the key is about the pack. Pivot players will always be a risk for any team incase of injuries. The difference here is the forwards, the yardage makers, not the pivots. Peacock is so far ahead of the other forwards in this side, it is like comparing Australia and Oldham. He has carried this pack for the last couple of years, last year especially. I can't think of another side where there is that big a chasm between the forwards.

Singleton potentially will become a very good player, but he isn't close yet. Bailey, Kirke, and Kylie can't come anything close. Although you don't like to accept it, and entirely your opinion, the truth is if Peacock, Bailey, Kylie, and Kirke are fit, Singleton won't get selected. Therefore we are back to Peacock.

That is the reason for the pack concerns. Yes you won't get six Peacocks. But you can have better than we have as back up.

Also why say people have predicted doom for a decade? That is just not needed, and untrue as well you know. Nobody on these boards have said anything close to such a thing.

Not far wrong mate. Singleton is constantly impressive when he is on the field. hes not all BASH for 10 mins and fades, he always seems on it. Big tank with a big appetite to drive in the ball.

IMO he should be in the ideal 17 week in week out if he plays to the standards he's set.

When is Stevie Ward due back?

Ward says he'll be ready for the opening game. Done a lot of contact drills with no reaction to the shoulder.

Be surprised if he doesn't get at least one run at Under 20 level or for Hunslet before he's in the first team though

Stevie?

Sounds like a girly name.

Is he actually called Stevie?

Back in the 70s I went to school with a lad called Stevie. I remember when went to secondary school one of the teachers said to him on his first day “You’re called Stevie??? Are bloody American or something?”

Gawd know what the bloke would have made of today’s kids names like Heaven-Leigh or middle class ones like Ptolemy or Ocelot.

'Appen parents nowadays.......back in t'day they were nowt wrong with a good old Arthur, George and Frank, or Barbara, Mavis and Ethel.

My more "us and them" was more a reply to Gotcha than yourself. But it still holds weight, you reviewed the match against London and used the term "the pack remain a concern for me"........why?

Why based ON THAT PERFORMANCE does the pack concern you? You listed old reasons. I absolutely don't mind criticism of the team when justified. Like you point out, you're free to your observations as a paying supporter (I've never said anybody can't post what they think, I've always merely challenged it) but I'm free to mine, and I believe I'm free to challenge others on here on a public forum.

Leuluai? Form dropped? Looking at his stats they hold steady compared to all other years he's been here.
Bailey? Always been an up and down character for years, he's had disappointing seasons and them come back again, 2012 for example I thought he played very well.
Kirke? Much debated before, I've said before I don't expect to see him in the 17 every week nowadays and that he's been used as a poster boy for "all that's wrong at the club" is OTT.
Ablett? Form dipped? Maybe at times, that's sport, he was also probably our best player in the last month and was sensational in the game against Saints (note having Briscoe added to the backs means Ablett can possibly spend a full season in the forwards, hence making us stronger there.
JJB/Delaney/Achurch/Ward? Reasons given for all.....injuries. Like you point out, luck. Can't be predicted no matter the skill or age of your team.

You want a new destructive prop? Well Singleton is making further inroads into the team. I know some will tell you we missed the boat on him or been too slow in his development and held him back. He's made the starting thirteen 9 times before reaching his 21st birthday, James Graham made 13 (and only 2 were as a prop).

You want a new destructive offloading BR? Sorry but some seem to have got carried away with nostalgia with when we signed Ali Lauitiiti and believe these kind of players grow on trees, the sport isn't full of them and if they were they'd be too expensive for us and be in the NRL most likely.

The rotation thing in 2013 I find quite funny. Did anybody else look at the fixture schedule? Firstly we have to go strong to prepare for Melbourne. After that we have a very tough run including Saints, Catalans and HKR away, Wigan and Wire at home and also the Easter game vs Bradford, who may have finished poorly but those with some memory might remember them flying quite high at that point int the table and put on one of their best showings at. Headingley in several years. We faced SL opposition in both rounds of the CC, personally I want them to go for that and not "rest" anybody. By the time we got to the likes of your Widnes, Wakey, London, Salford and Cas post WCC, we'd picked up a whole bunch of injuries and rotation wasn't an option as it became a whoever is still fit scenario.

Unlike yourself I actually do care that we won trophies in the last 2/3 years, it shows we have players who know how to get over that finishing line. It's not a gimme that if we replace them with younger players they carry on that.

You say "our reliance on JP is gunna bite us again"????.....did it actually bite us last year? Was that the true cause? We made more metres last year than we have since 2005. The last season before Peacock arrived and we've won 5 GF in that time.

I actually answered your post on the previous page, yet you didn't have the decency to respond to it, either rubbish it or defend it.

You talk about all the above on the fact that we made more metres as a team last year than previous. You are correct.

Although when looking at stats, it's always worthwhile looking at the detail if you want to use them. We have talked about the fundamental importance of Peacock. Last year he made 4040 metres on his own, compared with 2810 metres in 2012, and 1618 metres in 2011. If that is not a dramatic swing in the importance of one player, I don't know what is.

By contrast Kylie made 1860 metres in 2013, 2005 metres in 2012. Bailey made 750 metres in 2013, 1034 in 2012. Brett Delany made 1480 metres in 2013, and made 2201 in 2012.

Now compare and contrast with the Saints and Warrington pack, and see just how evenly spread their yardage makers are. And that is why people have a concern with our pack, the over reliance on one metre maker.

Your point of making more metres by the way is a big part of not just Peacock from a point of view, but also the switch of Hardaker to fullback, whom also makes a lot of metres. But of course that doesn't hide the fact of how we do not have an even pack of forwards.

I dunno. That's what he seems to get called. I don't know the guy personally.

When is Steven Ward likely to be fit to return to the Leeds Rhinos first team match day line up?

Happy now, Willy?

The pack remains a concern because its the same pack as last year Aiton aside and no unnopposed training run v the 2014 Whippping boys will change that view!
RE-Leuleui did he finish the final 3rd of the season as strong as he started based on what you saw not what's written on paper?? for me NO.
Again Bailey i'm talking last year his most recent season not 2012!
Kirke this not seen as 1st choice 17 much he's been 1st choice 17 for years and the Coach thinks so i personally don't think he's good enough and (finishing the Season strong in a couple of games doesn't change that.
Abblett again i stand by my view he was poor at times yet again got selected irrespective of that.
Injuries has been covered.
Onto rotation lets make it more straight forward why does JP have to be playing 60+mins or even at all in games against the likes of Cas ,Salford ,Widnes ,Wakey etc when we had Moore + Singleton more than capable of playing?
How come when clearly carrying injuries and more liabillity than worth are the likes of Delaney and Jjb in the 17 when again we had the depth to cover.
As for caring about the trophies we've won in the cold light of day moving forward they don't mean a right lot when the players who won them are either older ,slower ,injured or not performing.
Stats can show what they like ,what did we win last year and how did we get in the CC/play offs?
Relying on JP will bite us "again" because simply the others around him dont or cant take some of his work-load or with Mcdermotts methods case dont get chance to.
We've evolved the back line to have potentially the most potent in the SL for a long time yet the pack IMO still needs work.
Finally you've not once mentioned the structures we employed with and without the ball are they all ok aswell because we won GF's in the past?
The GF wins and finals etc have been outstanding as have the players that won them but that doesn't automatically point to us getting to them let alone winning them by standing still.

It is important to look at the details. How much of Peacock's importance (and metres made) in 2013 was down to his staying fit when others didn't? I wouldn't argue that he was our best forward but who else actually stayed injury-free long enough, or was selected frequently enough, to balance things out a bit better?

I don't have these stats to hand by the way, just wondered whether this was was a factor.