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Was listening to 5live yesterday and heard this interesting situation (which you may or may not be already aware of!). I'm not really a football fan (certainly not enough to know the ins and outs) but my interpretation of it is this;
The FA Cup Final is Man City vs. Stoke.
The winners of the FA Cup qualify for Europe, but if the winners qualify via the league, then the FA Cup runners up get what would be the winners Europe spot.
In real terms that means that if Man City finish 4th (and thus qualify for Europe) then Stoke would be in Europe next year whether they win or lose the FA Cup Final.
In other words, it is DEFINITELY in Stoke's best interests for City to finish 4th.
Which is all fine and dandy, except the race for 4th is very tight, and Stoke have yet to play City in the league, so Stoke could have a say in whether or not City finish 4th, meaning it is in Stoke's best interest to LOSE the league match against City, and if they beat City in the league, they've effectively knocked themselves out of Europe.
Weird! Can't see how that one will work itself out!
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| And Spurs seem to be moaning about this too.
Wonder why  |
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Anyone at Spurs who as much as suggests that Stoke are going to throw the league game at City should be banned by the FA for bringing the game into disrepute.
As Stoke's chairman has pointed out, there's a lot of money riding on where they finish in the Premier League, so it's ludicrous to suggest that they aren't going to be trying to get as many league points as possible.
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English clubs in Europe next season if it goes to plan for Stoke.
Uefa Champions League: Manchester United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester City
Uefa Europa League: Tottenham Hotspur, Birmingham City, Stoke City.
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| Quote ="the canaries"And Spurs seem to be moaning about this too.
Wonder why
'"
Crazy isn't it!
The worst part is the league match is after the FA Cup match, so if Stoke loose the FA Cup (which let's face it, they're likely to!) by that point, the 100% only way Stoke could play in Europe would be if City finishing 4th!
Madness. Funny madness though! |
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"As Stoke's chairman has pointed out, there's a lot of money riding on where they finish in the Premier League, so it's ludicrous to suggest that they aren't going to be trying to get as many league points as possible.'"
£500k for each league place compared to millions from european football. champions league is touted as £60 million, Europe League will be around £20 million I would expect.
With them numbers the Stoke's chairmans argument doesnt stand up for very long. |
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| Quote ="Charlie Brown"£500k for each league place compared to millions from european football. champions league is touted as £60 million, Europe League will be around £20 million I would expect.
With them numbers the Stoke's chairmans argument doesnt stand up for very long.'"
Agree far more lucrative to be in europe rather than few league places |
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Tottenham play Liverpool the day after the Cup Final. If Man City have won the FA Cup, it would be in Liverpool's interests for City to finish fifth, meaning Liverpool in 6th would get the league UEFA spot. So the best result for them could be to lose, helping Tottenham come 4th.
Harry, of course, hasn't mentioned this.
The real problem is not having the Cup Final as the very last game of the season.
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| Quote ="Remarkable_Rhinos"Yes.
You are right.
There is a lot of money riding on the league points.
The suggestions that Stoke would rather play in Europe than finish slightly higher mid-table is ludicrous.
'"  |
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Stoke City would only qualify for the UEFA Europa league if they
a: Win the FA Challenge Cup.
b: Manchester City win the FA Challenge Cup and qualify for the UEFA Champions League.
Other scenario.
Manchester City win FA Challenge Cup and do not qualify for UEFA Champions League. If they finish in what would be a qualifying spot for the UEFA Europa League (5th) then their league spot would be allocated to the club finishing 6th in the Barclays Premier League. If Manchester City finish 6th in the Barclays Premier League then the 5th placed club would be allocated their UEFA Europa League berth as usual.
Further to Frosties post, there is a chance England will be allocated an extra spot in the UEFA Europa League via the Fair Play League. This would go to the highest ranked club in the Barclays Premier League Fair Play standings not already qualified for the UEFA Champions League or UEFA Europa League. This spot is currently occupied by Fulham FC.
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Fulham always seem to get that gig!
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It's football.
Don't care.
Sorry.
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Oh
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as per usual it shows ignorance is everywhere
do you know the stoke chairman and what the family is worth? no Peter Coates the 19th richest man in football owner of Bet 365 this is this years prize money
1st qualifying round: €90,000
2nd qualifying round: €90,000
3rd qualifying round: €90,000
Playoffs: €90,000
Group stage: €1,000,000
Group match victory: €120,000
Group match draw: €60,000
1st knock out round: €180,000
2nd knock out round: €270,000
Quarter-finals: €360,000
Semi-finals: €630,000
Qualifying for Final: €2,000,000
Winning the Final: €2,000,000 + €1,000,000
Due to Stoke co efficent they would have to qualify for the group stages £90,000 (euros ) v £500,000 for a placing in the prem meaning they would have to get into the group stage a gamble
were you there to see Stoke roll over against Bolton and only score at set pieces? err no hang on all the goals were from open play and as i recall it was 5-0 and Bolton were beat
do you think the fans of Stoke would want to roll over in the FA cup and lose to City ( considering they have not lost in the last 4 meetings including a 3-1 fa cup win) or to lose at the Brittannia to City err no as Stoke sing "they play how they want"
as per usual people jump on the band waggon of old Harry the season was played over 38 games and if they were any good they wouldnt need any other Fecckers help
the game takes place when it does due to UEFA stating no game shall be played at the finals venue two weeks before the final is played it is the Fa hand that is being forced into the Cup final schedule
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Spot on. And no team managed by Tony pulis will ever roll over
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| Quote ="BigJake"Due to Stoke co efficent they would have to qualify for the group stages £90,000 (euros ) v £500,000 for a placing in the prem meaning they would have to get into the group stage a gamble'"
I refer you to the qualifying procedures for next seasons [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%9312_UEFA_Europa_League#Association_team_allocationUEFA Europa League[/url
Fulham is they qualify via the Fair Play League will enter the competition at the FIRST Qualifying Round
Birmingham City as winners of the Carling Cup enter at the THIRD Qualifying Round.
If Stoke City qualify via the FA Challenge Cup win or lose the final (subject to Manchester City qualifying for the 2011-12 UEFA Champions League as indicated in my previous post) would enter at the Play-off round alongide the 14 other top ranked associations cup winners, 3 domestic league third-placed teams from associations 7–9, 3 domestic league fourth-placed teams from associations 4–6, 3 domestic league fifth-placed teams from associations 1–3 (potentially Tottenham Hotspur as things stand), the 35 winners from the Third Qualifying Round plus 15 losers from the 2011–12 UEFA Champions League third qualifying round.
A total of 74 teams giving 37 winners.
These 37 winners then join the title holders, plus the 10 losers from the 2011–12 UEFA Champions League Play Off Round who are the ONLY sides to qualify directy into the Group stage. This procedure is also subject the the 2010-11 UEFA Europa League Holders not participating in the 2011-12 UEFA Champions League, this is explained fully in the link provided.
Does that explain things for you? |
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this is how Uefa explain the take up of the "runners up" spot by the 5th place team moving up one spot to go into the group stage and the runners up then having the earlier starting round meaning the runners up have to go into the playoff or qualifying round
which mean spurs go into the group stage which is what i said that Stoke would have to risk qualifying for the group stage and only get £90,000 euros for the win then if they get into the group stage would they get £1,000,000
does that clarify it clear enough
www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Dow ... WNLOAD.pdf
2.04 If the winner of the domestic cup qualifies for the UEFA Champions League,
the domestic cup runner-up qualifies for the UEFA Europa League at the
stage initially reserved for the lowest ranking top domestic league
representative (or the winner of another official domestic competition in
accordance with paragraph 2.03). Should both the winner and the runner-up
of the domestic cup qualify for the UEFA Champions League, the association
concerned may enter for the UEFA Europa League the club which finishes
the top domestic league immediately below the other club or clubs which
qualify for the UEFA Europa League. In both cases, the access stage initially
reserved for the domestic cup winner is reserved for the club which finishes
the domestic league in the highest position out of all the clubs which qualify
for the UEFA Europa League from the association concerned (see Annex Ia).
Each representative of the domestic league will then enter the competition at
the stage initially reserved for the domestic league representative ranked
immediately above it |
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this is how Uefa explain the take up of the "runners up" spot by the 5th place team moving up one spot to go into the group stage and the runners up then having the earlier starting round meaning the runners up have to go into the playoff or qualifying round
which mean spurs go into the group stage which is what i said that Stoke would have to risk qualifying for the group stage and only get £90,000 euros for the win then if they get into the group stage would they get £1,000,000
does that clarify it clear enough
www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Dow ... WNLOAD.pdf
2.04 If the winner of the domestic cup qualifies for the UEFA Champions League,
the domestic cup runner-up qualifies for the UEFA Europa League at the
stage initially reserved for the lowest ranking top domestic league
representative (or the winner of another official domestic competition in
accordance with paragraph 2.03). Should both the winner and the runner-up
of the domestic cup qualify for the UEFA Champions League, the association
concerned may enter for the UEFA Europa League the club which finishes
the top domestic league immediately below the other club or clubs which
qualify for the UEFA Europa League. In both cases, the access stage initially
reserved for the domestic cup winner is reserved for the club which finishes
the domestic league in the highest position out of all the clubs which qualify
for the UEFA Europa League from the association concerned (see Annex Ia).
Each representative of the domestic league will then enter the competition at
the stage initially reserved for the domestic league representative ranked
immediately above it | |
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| Quote ="tad rhino"Spot on. And no team managed by Tony pulis will ever roll over'"
Is what I think too. |
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Quote ="BigJake"this is how Uefa explain the take up of the "runners up" spot by the 5th place team moving up one spot to go into the group stage and the runners up then having the earlier starting round meaning the runners up have to go into the playoff or qualifying round
which mean spurs go into the group stage which is what i said that Stoke would have to risk qualifying for the group stage and only get £90,000 euros for the win then if they get into the group stage would they get £1,000,000
does that clarify it clear enough
www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Dow ... WNLOAD.pdf
2.04 If the winner of the domestic cup qualifies for the UEFA Champions League,
the domestic cup runner-up qualifies for the UEFA Europa League at the
stage initially reserved for the lowest ranking top domestic league
representative (or the winner of another official domestic competition in
accordance with paragraph 2.03). Should both the winner and the runner-up
of the domestic cup qualify for the UEFA Champions League, the association
concerned may enter for the UEFA Europa League the club which finishes
the top domestic league immediately below the other club or clubs which
qualify for the UEFA Europa League. In both cases, the access stage initially
reserved for the domestic cup winner is reserved for the club which finishes
the domestic league in the highest position out of all the clubs which qualify
for the UEFA Europa League from the association concerned (see Annex Ia).
Each representative of the domestic league will then enter the competition at
the stage initially reserved for the domestic league representative ranked
immediately above it'"
The point is though the only teams that go directly into the UEFA Europa League Group Stage are the 10 losers from the UEFA Champions League Play Off Round and the previous seasons UEFA Europa League Winners, subject to them not qualifying for the UEFA Champions League.
Even the 5th placed team in the Barclays Premier League would have to go into the play off round for the UEFA Europa League. Birmingham as Carling Cup Holders would still be forced into the Third Qualifying Round as they would be classed as the lowest ranked participant from England. Stoke City would still enter the competition at the Play-Off Round. |
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Quote ="BigJake"this is how Uefa explain the take up of the "runners up" spot by the 5th place team moving up one spot to go into the group stage and the runners up then having the earlier starting round meaning the runners up have to go into the playoff or qualifying round
which mean spurs go into the group stage which is what i said that Stoke would have to risk qualifying for the group stage and only get £90,000 euros for the win then if they get into the group stage would they get £1,000,000
does that clarify it clear enough
www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Dow ... WNLOAD.pdf
2.04 If the winner of the domestic cup qualifies for the UEFA Champions League,
the domestic cup runner-up qualifies for the UEFA Europa League at the
stage initially reserved for the lowest ranking top domestic league
representative (or the winner of another official domestic competition in
accordance with paragraph 2.03). Should both the winner and the runner-up
of the domestic cup qualify for the UEFA Champions League, the association
concerned may enter for the UEFA Europa League the club which finishes
the top domestic league immediately below the other club or clubs which
qualify for the UEFA Europa League. In both cases, the access stage initially
reserved for the domestic cup winner is reserved for the club which finishes
the domestic league in the highest position out of all the clubs which qualify
for the UEFA Europa League from the association concerned (see Annex Ia).
Each representative of the domestic league will then enter the competition at
the stage initially reserved for the domestic league representative ranked
immediately above it'"
The point is though the only teams that go directly into the UEFA Europa League Group Stage are the 10 losers from the UEFA Champions League Play Off Round and the previous seasons UEFA Europa League Winners, subject to them not qualifying for the UEFA Champions League.
Even the 5th placed team in the Barclays Premier League would have to go into the play off round for the UEFA Europa League. Birmingham as Carling Cup Holders would still be forced into the Third Qualifying Round as they would be classed as the lowest ranked participant from England. Stoke City would still enter the competition at the Play-Off Round. | |
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Oh.
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| Quote ="Sherbert Dip"It's football.
Don't care.
Sorry.'"
It was pointless opening the thread then, let alone commenting on it! |
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| Quote ="WhiteRhino"It was pointless opening the thread then, let alone commenting on it!'"
Agreed. I did clearly state OT, and mention the two clubs involved in the title.
He could be forgiven had I run with the title... "Free Cake" and it was 3/4 of the way in to the first post when football was mentioned. |
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