same every week after game come on here and list the faults of a player from his list of the one's he doesn't rate rather than talk about the game its self.

Two teams give everything, not much between both teams. Our scramble/last ditch defence probably won the day. With reference to Walters, with a ridiculously low salary cap you will always get a huge difference in skill levels.
Just watched radfords post match interviews, I have respect for him, he could have quite easily had a moan about not getting fifty fifty calls or rub of the green etc etc. He choose not to, which is great credit to him.

Totally agree. FC were missing a few quality forwards and will be in the mix again at the end of the year. Great to see Myler, Watkins and briscoe combining so well on the right. we know Moon can play on the left, so good signs. Radford's interviews are great.The one last week about watts was as straightforward as you can get. Regarding Walters, I thought it was best game I have seen him play and If McDermott thought anyone could do a better job now , they would have played in his place.

Walters Is a liability imo. The stats may say he made 38 tackles but they dont say how many were dominant or effective, which wasnt many. He was often left clinging to a leg after being ran over or through. They will go down on the stat sheet as a tackle but in reality it was poor defence, added to his non- existant offensive contribution it was yet another poor display from him.

JJB, Ablett, Delaney, Ward, Ferres and Keinhorst would probably all get selected ahead of Walters. So as 7th choice 2nd row he’s obviously not going to be international class, but he puts the effort in and does a job, he doesn’t deserve the level of criticism he gets. How would our 7th choice centre get on?

Who got the Sky Mom award Thursday btw?

Watkins

Completely disagree re- Farrell/Wilkinson.
Agree re-Watkins Myler & Garbutt i can see a good link building on that right edge.

I'd agree with all the RL points. Some good stuff came out of that game and though I was sceptical when we signed Myler, he's beginning to add an extra dimension to our attacking game. Had our bench been stronger, we'd have controlled that game a whole lot better than we did. The downside of this is that our stand in players seem poorly-drilled. I can see why McDermott is averse to using bench players when I see our defence losing its organisation in the way it did. I'm not talking goal line here, just the increased ease with which Hull were able to head up field. In a sense he's right to minimise that disruption but in another that bench needs to be better trained.

Back to the game - I thought this was a hard won victory - something the whole side worked really hard for on the night.

Yes there were some below par performances but these need to seen in the round.

I thought the disallowed Hull try just before half time should have been given - but swings and roundabouts.

Saints away will be a different proposition.

You are still missing the point of the missing stats, which tell a lot more than the ones recorded do, and are only formed from the naked eye.

And to counter your having a dig argument, if you actually go back and read the post I commented to you, you will see quite clearly that I stated what you will see from the tv, is a guy popping up all over the place and involved in tackles, and this was before any stats. That is what you are using the stats recorded to back up. What you miss though is the gaps left all over the place, and him not knowing where the hell he is and effecting the shape of the defensive line.

Nowhere have you disprooved these comments, infact they are backed up continually by others who were at the game. Only difference is, it appears it is excusable because he is only 7th choice, but that doesn't mean your opinion is correct.

I will give you hands down that certain things can been seen better on the tv, which are when something needs seeing close up, i.e. a try, a foul in the tackle, a knock on or stolen ball. However, you have absolutely no idea from watching the tv what effects anyone has on the rest of the defence by the actions of players. You only see what is in the lense view at the time.

One of the issues of Headingley is there are very few places you can see the whole fabric of the game - something you cannot see on TV

I've not seen anybody deny this is the case - he does have a tendency to over chase and can break structure, but given he is so low down the pecking order, and the fact he clearly puts in a massive effort, to throw out lines like 'the worst excuse of a rugby player' is way over the top, sensationalist and smells of a personal vendetta.

I've seen players with much more natural talent put in far worse performances (and on a regular basis) than Walters did against Hull. The grief he gets is way over the top for his standing in the game.

Yup. For me, a lot of his mis-directed effort can be attributed to how infrequently he gets game time. That's not to say he should keep a better player out but plenty of well-regarded defenders would become a whole lot less reliable if they weren't doing it week in week out.

I repeat my my previous comments, while we have an extremely low salary cap you will always have a disparity of skills.
English rugby union cap is presently seven million pounds, even that does not prevent top players from moving to France.
I note that the wire board is complaining that stars like Morley and briers have never been replaced.
Probably because those players today would command too much money for super league. Obviously Morley did go to Australia.
I am not in the gossip loop, so I have no idea what the Leeds players wage structure is, should imagine Walters will be on the same wages as a skilled building worker.
Ben foden the Northampton Union full back ,a reasonable but not top class player is earning at 32 years of age over half a million pounds per year. Unless the salary cap is lifted substantially higher ,the game will plod on as usual owned by sky tv and situated along the m62 corridor.

Apologies apparently foden is on six hundred grand per year my pal has just informed me. Information via Sunday times

But players wages are completely irrelevant when in this scenario. They are only relevant if talking about first choice star players. If Walters is really a 7th choice backrower, then even if he is on a pound it shouldn't be there. There is players in the system who are far more likely to be a success with experience who would perform the equal of what he plays now. That is the choice we should be making. Not just make excuses because someone is a backup. He isn't a youngster, he has been around a while now. Leeds have had many many back up players over the years who have made numerous first team appearances, and have dissapeared in the game since, not good enough. I just can't recall one off top of my head as bad as him. I am sure there must be one.

Yet McDermott, the most successful coach in Super League history continues to pick him.

I do get the argument of give a youngster with more long term potential a shot instead, but Walters is obviously doing what the coach expects of him to justify his place. Maybe the coach thinks it's better to it someone like Walters in almost as cannon fodder, than put a junior in that same position who's development could be hampered by taking a beating or by falling into the same mistakes or bad habits as Walters by trying to do too much when the troops are low.

The thing about McDermott is that everything is done for a reason - even the stuff that leaves the rest of us scratching our heads. His lack of use of subs, Kirke playing for 10 mins with the job of just holding the fort whilst JP has a rest, Bailey being the distraction (whilst pretty much anonymous in attack)...

But whatever reason Walters gets picked, and when he does, he gives his all, and that puts him above many other players who've had all the talent in the world but not of the right attitude. To call him the worst excuse of a rugby player is over the top. You get what you expect from him - he shouldn't be hammered for that.

It's up to younger players to get themselves ahead of Walters then.

Let's be honest, the younger player mostly in question here and who Gotcha has championed a lot is Cameron Smith, it's not Walters fault that Smith hasn't made himself playable in McDermott's eyes and for the criticism he gets for not giving youngsters a chance the likes of Ward and Walker were played in GF's at 18.

Smith sounded poor and uninterested at Bradford and the same person who slates Walters minutes after a good home win, points the finger of blame at the club for Smith. Maybe the finger should be pointed at Smith rather than the club or Walters but it won't be because of previous backing of Smith.

That is a very fair assessment - the question is why hasn't Smith kicked on?

The only person who can answer that question is Smith.

Smith has had a couple of really bad injuries, to be fair. It's hardly surprising though, the younger a player is when they play first grade, the more injury prone they tend to be.

As I've said before the step up from 19s to Championship is massive, to Super League even more so. It's a big ask, especially for a forward and one that's had a few injuries. Smith may be a late developer or he just may be not quite as good as was originally hoped (Richard Gunn?).

There's a bit of truth on both sides of the debate re Walters. IMO he looks clueless positionally. In attack its less of an issue because he's not a key player, but he really needs to get more disciplined in terms of getting back into position once he's made a tackle, as he looks like an U9s player chasing the ball.

I personally would rather give chances to younger players. But its also true that its up to those younger players to show enough in the Academy or on loan or at training to demand to get a chance, and then to do enough when picked to make the coach want to pick them again.

Bit of a long shot, but does anyone have a programme from the Hull game at HQ? I’ve been in the shop to see if they have any spares, but have every one bar this (typical). I’ve tried eBay as well but no such luck. Obviously I’ll pay for it.