Give over he wasn't just popping up all over he put in 38 tackles many of them first in and to only have JJB (44 tackles) ahead of him is to his great credit especially as he came off the bench and his time was limited. Many of his tackles were consecutive so of course he was moving sideways.

I agree he is not near being a first choice player on all round ability but you have to give credit when it is due. You have an agenda with this player and I bet it is awful sitting anywhere near you in the stands

If you were watching on tv then you should have noticed the gaps he left & how he "chased the ball" on many occasions leaving gaps.
Now whilst i agree the lad put a shift in to make out he's some sort of tackling machine is way wide of the mark even with your spread-sheet Coaching manual.
Opta don't list the number of times he was bumped off when fist in a tackle nor the gaps he left when chasing the ball.
He wasn't the only one i thought Mullally was off with his impact aswell.

So did Ormondroyd for one certain try, but he is critisized also.

He is terrible. One of the worst players i have ever seen pull on leeds shirt. The fact he is still doing so after several years baffles me, he should not be blocking any young lads path the first team.

That's all my opinion, if yours is different i respect that. I have only seen similar sentiments really on here with a few jokey asides. As i have said before, he will always be fondly remembered for the 2015 try but he is a very lucky lad to still be at the club nearly 3 years on.

He was actually chasing the man with the ball and on 38 occasions made the tackle. He only came on in the first half after 28 minutes and was not on for the whole of the second half so when he was not tackling it did not leave much time for these "many occasions when he left gaps" or "was bumped off when first in a tackle"so you are exaggerating. P

Perhaps you showed watch the TV video and you will see the good work he did which perhaps you did not spot live. While you are doing that you can quantify all these many occasions that he was bumped off and left all these gaps?

I never said he was a tackling machine. What I pointed out was the important role he played in our defence last night to counter the OTT opinion coming fro Gotcha

I am sure you will be pleased that Owen Farrell is captain of England tomorrow. Something I know you predicted or not?

I think it says it all about the attitude of some folk that after a game when we got a decent win, with a depleted team, that the focus is on hammering a bit part squad player (who put in a shift).
The things being said about him are true, he does over chase, and he's often guilty of trying to solve a problem himself, or smash someone when holding structure would be better - but he's not a first drawer player - he's a squad filler who gives his all when given the chance.
McDermott is obviously happy enough to throw him in, and he's obviously doing the job expected of him.
Something worth recognising is that as people have pointed out, he's not the most naturally talented or gifted, he's not got the best skills, and doesn't necessarily read the game brilliantly, but he's a grand final winner and regularly part of our match day squad, despite these failings- he's obviously got to where he is through hard work and determination. How about giving him credit for that and accepting he's going to make mistakes, but he also puts a shift in and McDermott obviously feels he can rely on him.

He was criticised for only making 6 tackles with 4 missed tackles one of which led to a try.

But I guess you think that is ok as he didn't "follow the ball" and so much better than making 38 tackles.

Sorry but I don't agree with this. You accept his failings are true, but believe because of his attitude, and that you consider him a bit part player that it is acceptable. Well I personally don't. I accept his enthusiasm, and his work rate, but I can clearly see the liability he is to his team mates also. The point is, he is never going to be anything more than that bit part player you say, but we have plenty of other promising players in the wings who one day, given the same opportunities potentially will be excellent players. We should be using those players to test the water, before lowering the standards to someone clearly not good enough. If that sounds harsh, so be it, and I do accept the effort as I sadi, but just because they put cheap labour in at the club I personally don't think that warrants a shirt.

Spot on.

Although compare to last year, the 4th league game was THAT hammering vs Cas so if the main gripe after the 4th league game this year is bit part player then things can't be too bad at the club.

What do people expect from someone who is probably our 7th choice second rower, in a salary capped sport? Wind it in please, whilst he might never be anything other than average, he's prepared to put his body on the line for the club and I'll go with that.

Absolutely!

Why on earth he's getting so much grief is beyond me.

Because moaning old wallopers need a scapegoat and JW fits the bill. It's called the "Kirke Effect"

same every week after game come on here and list the faults of a player from his list of the one's he doesn't rate rather than talk about the game its self.

Two teams give everything, not much between both teams. Our scramble/last ditch defence probably won the day. With reference to Walters, with a ridiculously low salary cap you will always get a huge difference in skill levels.
Just watched radfords post match interviews, I have respect for him, he could have quite easily had a moan about not getting fifty fifty calls or rub of the green etc etc. He choose not to, which is great credit to him.

Totally agree. FC were missing a few quality forwards and will be in the mix again at the end of the year. Great to see Myler, Watkins and briscoe combining so well on the right. we know Moon can play on the left, so good signs. Radford's interviews are great.The one last week about watts was as straightforward as you can get. Regarding Walters, I thought it was best game I have seen him play and If McDermott thought anyone could do a better job now , they would have played in his place.

Walters Is a liability imo. The stats may say he made 38 tackles but they dont say how many were dominant or effective, which wasnt many. He was often left clinging to a leg after being ran over or through. They will go down on the stat sheet as a tackle but in reality it was poor defence, added to his non- existant offensive contribution it was yet another poor display from him.

JJB, Ablett, Delaney, Ward, Ferres and Keinhorst would probably all get selected ahead of Walters. So as 7th choice 2nd row he’s obviously not going to be international class, but he puts the effort in and does a job, he doesn’t deserve the level of criticism he gets. How would our 7th choice centre get on?

Who got the Sky Mom award Thursday btw?

Watkins

Completely disagree re- Farrell/Wilkinson.
Agree re-Watkins Myler & Garbutt i can see a good link building on that right edge.

I'd agree with all the RL points. Some good stuff came out of that game and though I was sceptical when we signed Myler, he's beginning to add an extra dimension to our attacking game. Had our bench been stronger, we'd have controlled that game a whole lot better than we did. The downside of this is that our stand in players seem poorly-drilled. I can see why McDermott is averse to using bench players when I see our defence losing its organisation in the way it did. I'm not talking goal line here, just the increased ease with which Hull were able to head up field. In a sense he's right to minimise that disruption but in another that bench needs to be better trained.

Back to the game - I thought this was a hard won victory - something the whole side worked really hard for on the night.

Yes there were some below par performances but these need to seen in the round.

I thought the disallowed Hull try just before half time should have been given - but swings and roundabouts.

Saints away will be a different proposition.

You are still missing the point of the missing stats, which tell a lot more than the ones recorded do, and are only formed from the naked eye.

And to counter your having a dig argument, if you actually go back and read the post I commented to you, you will see quite clearly that I stated what you will see from the tv, is a guy popping up all over the place and involved in tackles, and this was before any stats. That is what you are using the stats recorded to back up. What you miss though is the gaps left all over the place, and him not knowing where the hell he is and effecting the shape of the defensive line.

Nowhere have you disprooved these comments, infact they are backed up continually by others who were at the game. Only difference is, it appears it is excusable because he is only 7th choice, but that doesn't mean your opinion is correct.

I will give you hands down that certain things can been seen better on the tv, which are when something needs seeing close up, i.e. a try, a foul in the tackle, a knock on or stolen ball. However, you have absolutely no idea from watching the tv what effects anyone has on the rest of the defence by the actions of players. You only see what is in the lense view at the time.

One of the issues of Headingley is there are very few places you can see the whole fabric of the game - something you cannot see on TV

I've not seen anybody deny this is the case - he does have a tendency to over chase and can break structure, but given he is so low down the pecking order, and the fact he clearly puts in a massive effort, to throw out lines like 'the worst excuse of a rugby player' is way over the top, sensationalist and smells of a personal vendetta.

I've seen players with much more natural talent put in far worse performances (and on a regular basis) than Walters did against Hull. The grief he gets is way over the top for his standing in the game.