we have nobody to control a game.thats where we miss sinfield.his game management.2 seasons later it's still not been addressed

Spot on. So what I said entirely correct, nobody in this team has won an important game without Sinfield. Therefore, for anyone to take confidence that "this squad knows how to win finals" is over optimistic.

We have nobody to coach or lead the team either without Sinfield.

Nail and head

has there ever been anybody able to control a game like sinfield, you cant replace the irreplaceable, but you can do it a different way, and i think we are not far off that with parcel cuhbo ward etc. if lilley can come on (or given a chance extended run) with a running half like myler. think we will not be too far off.
still think we will end up with nothing, but think we can be the team to beat next year.

Not automatically assuming and we may not win if we get to the GF. But the point being debated was that we need to beat Cas tomorrow to have the confidence to have any chance to beat them at Old Trafford (if that's the GF). I disagree, when you have the record Leeds have at that venue in the last 10 years their confidence that they can win there won't hinge on tomorrow nights result.

If it is a Leeds vs Cas GF. The fact our club, players, coaches, management, fans etc. know a GF night/week like the back of their hand compared to Cas who have never been to one shouldn't be underplayed. Especially considering Cas will have all the expectation and hype on them in their first GF and Leeds will have none.

But again it's not like they've had numerous attempts to say that they can't win without him in a big time match.

I still think that Burrow and McGuire have enough big game experience to run the game between them, thats why I would go with them 2 to start in the halves in the playoffs, with Moon back to centre and Sutcliffe as an attacking weapon off the bench.

Moon has been great in the halves but I think it puts too much pressure on McGuire as he has to both organise the team and be the creative.

Maybe a bit harsh on Sutty but I genuinely think if we brought him on with 30 to go he could well make the break that wins us the game against a tired defence.

You have just contradicted yourself - your saying Leeds have all the experience but will have none of the expectation? Surely like you are doing many will take that experience into consideration their expectations for the game?

Neither has ever run a big game and a lot of Burrow's GF experience is an impact player off the bench. Moon is not a half and hasn't shown any of the basic skills required of a half. He may actually have had more impact playing at FB.

No because as we are seeing here people are saying that was when Sinfield was around. I'm taking the experience into consideration but I'm not sure many others will and will be too caught up in the hype surrounding Castleford and their record against us.

That kinda positive talk may get you shot round here..

...or at least you'll be branded a heretic.

McGuire mainly ran the 2015 GF, whilst Burrow mainly ran the 2007 GF (imo of corse), I think you are underestimating the effect that they had in controlling our trophy winning finals. The only finals I recall being totally dominated by Sinfield are the 2004 and 2012 GFs.

I actually said earlier in the season that I would move Moon to fullback, but it might be a bit late to test that out now

No, and I have not said that either. I am stating this squad haven't won an important match without Sinfield, and therefore this "know how to win finals" is over optimistic. More relevant would be that Leeds have been incredibly lucky this year, and if that continues I would be more optimistic on that basis.

What we should all be saying is that we are poop, when we win a match, we are lucky and the coach has had help from someone else (a favourite of mine).....Cas have been excellent this year and deserve all the plaudits, Leeds have exceeded all expectations and may have a chance of getting to another GF. With ground improvements and a shot at OT, I'd rate this season as pretty good. The overall standard of SL has been poor in comparison to years gone by, but watching a game is still enjoyable for me. I don't need to see my team win to enjoy a game, I go to Halifax, Bradford, Dewsbury, Batley and Oldham during the season as well as Siddall and enjoy every game. Pity some folk.

Well in your mind Sinfield might've won those GF's single handledly but others will rightly recognised the key performances from others.

Most would also recognise the platform Sinfield created for those players to perform

I don't see how you get that impression from that post?
Those key performances whilst rightly lauded & recognised all came off the back of quality efforts across the 17 but what should never be over looked or underplayed was the Leadership & sheer presence of Sinfield & JP.
This current crop have no default setting of winning big games without either.

No but their GF experience doesn't just disappear out of window to be dismissed because Sinfield and Peacock have retired.

Wakey blew it late on which keeps Saints alive and puts us closer to securing 2nd as only Hull can catch us now. A Hull loss to Wigan tomorrow and doesn't matter what happens with our result.

Scott Grix really needs to learn when to boot a ball into row Z, you'd have thought he'd have learnt from the Ryan Hall try at Hudds.

Wakefield blew it all through the second half - accepting for ten mins they were down a man - but negatively kicking the ball off the field didn't challenge St Helens in those conditions. Barba didn't fancy those bombs in traffic.

Surprised wakey kicked that last penalty goal. Thought they would have been smarter to kick into the saints corner and pin them down that end of the field. The importance of gamemanagement which is being discussed on this thread . Sinfield, McGuire etc etc.

Printer - I don't think Leeds need to beat Cas necessarily, but they need to get close enough to believe they can beat them. Relying on a team who have collectively shown nothing in important games for almost two full seasons to come alive on GF day with some air of completely undeserved superiority just doesn't wash. If we did that I reckon our 'confidence' due to the past would be a wafer-thin veneer and would disappear very quickly under pressure.

What are people classifying as important games in the last two years?

Huddersfield CC
Widnes at home to avoid dropping into the bottom 4
Hull CC

All of which the team failed to deliver any kind of performance let alone a win

You may well be correct in that if they get to the GFthe team will suddenly morph into Leeds c2015 - I would suggest the chances are more against than for that happening.

You may not lose the experience but you cannot turn back father time and the likes of McGuire, Burrow, Ablett, JJB are not anywhere near the players they once were and the likes of Peacock and Kylie simply haven't been replaced with anything approaching their quality and that is before you talk about the Sinfield factor.