I think having Brent Webb at full back certainly helped all wingers with his cut out passes. Since he left other than 2015 our attack has never been as good.

Since he has gone our wide players have never had the chances that they had while he was there.

Another good point away from the Joel Moon centre myth.

Spot on. Webb used to link brilliantly and speedily especially on the left side and created so much space for Senior and whoever was the left winger

I do not think "ball hog" is an accurate description for Moon. Over the last 5 years since he came into the side Moon is slightly ahead of Watkins for both try assists and offloads.

Gotcha - Hall had his best ever return of 33 the year before Moon arrived in 2012, not a fall. The fall came in 2013 when Moon arrived and he managed less than half what he'd done the previous year. Hall kept scoring tries in 2012 even after Webb got injured and Hardaker took over - he scored 16 with Hardaker at fullback (from just 17 games) and 17 with Webb there, so its also not true that it was all down to Webb either. The only major change in the backs from halfway through 2012 to 2013 was Moon. And Joe Vickery for comic relief on the other wing.

Like I say, I find it frustrating to watch Moon because when he does go to the line looking to set up play he has the speed, strength and pass to make lots of room for other players. Players either have vision or they don't. He doesn't, which is why he's playing SL and not NRL.

Just for completeness Hall's record is actually as follows:

2009 - 32 (31 games)
2010 - 31 (33 games)
2011 - 32 (35 games)
2012 - 33 (37 games)
2013 - Moon arrives - 16 (32 games).
2014 - 23 from 30 games
2015 - 22 from 31 games

In 2013 the ONLY change in the backs was Moon once BJB was fit. Hardaker had moved to full back halfway through 2012 and yet, miraculously the left winger continued to score even in Webb's absence and Ablett at centre. The main drop was at left centre, where Hardaker had been previously and scored a shedload before moving to fullback. Probably not surprising that the left centre from thereon scored less, given that it was mainly Ablett, who whilst an OK centre was never a running threat in the same way as Hardaker.

I've absolutely no idea why you'd try to make a case for Moon being a good winger's centre, but if you do at least get the numbers right.

You would expect that as moving the ball from right to left is by far the easiest motion for a right handed player.

As i said once Webb left the wingers tries go down but in truth still a good record. Lets not forget also Hall has bulked as his career has progressed and hes not got the pace he once had. Hes still a great winger but the Ryan Hall today is a different one to 2009.

Those figures are not a fair reflection. I am unsure where you got them from, but I took into account Super League games, and super league games only, which is the only reflective comparison.

His try's are actually

2008 8
2009 28
2010 23
2011 25
2012 26
2013 15
2014 16
2015 19
2016 4
2017 10

And on this, I will repeat myself one more time, and unsure why you keep ignoring this key point. At no time have I defended Joeal Moon as a wingers centre, completely the oppossite, as I have stated I don't believe they exist in the current game. What I have repeatedly said is that the left hand side did not suffer in anyway with Moon at centre. You personally, have made this all about Ryan Hall, one individual player, as I keep saying, yet you started out by saying the left hand side.

The tries scored in that left channell hasn't been effected by Moon, and people have given you various other reasons that should have effected it, but still you seem to think it is down to one man, yet nothing backs that up. You completely ignore the number of Joel Moon tries, and seem to be penalising him for scoring a try instead of passing to Ryan Hall.

Moon has the same number of try assists as Watkins for each of the previous 5 seaons, except for 2014 where he was out for an extended period. Do you think Watkins is also a bad centre?

I don’t have a problem with Moon at centre. As Gotcha says does it really matter if Hall is scoring fewer tries but Moon is scoring more?

I’d say Moon’s running game is better than most other centres which probably leads itself to more tries for him rather than setting Hall up. As mentioned the loss of Webb and a less structured type of play would also lend itself to Moon scoring more compared to Hall. I also think you have to take into account the fact that Hall is probably viewed as a big threat by opposition defences and wingers are probably coached to stay on Hall more than with other wingers, leaving more space on the inside for a centre like Moon to exploit.

You would certainly not expect it if he was a "ball hog" which was the point I was contesting. Anyway a professional rugby player should have no difficulty passing either way, it is the lack of willingness to pass that is the issue.

Not as effectively, it is the same for every team - more tries will be scored down the left than the right.

Well if you say so Sal as you always know best, but hang on a minute the following record breaking [uright[/u wingers would have cause to challenge you on your assumption.

Wild Rosenberg Leeds club record for tries in a season 48
Brian Bevan record for career tries 796 and second in most tries in a season 72
Albert Rosenfeld record holder for tries in a season 80 and 391 in career
Billy Boston 478 tries in 488 appearances
Tom Van Vollenhoven 392 career tries and another legend of the game
I could go on with Clive Sullivan, Jason Robinson and our own Alan Smith etc

So basically the SL tries number shows exactly the same, that Hall's tries dried up significantly immediately following Moon's arrival? I like Moon as a player, but the numbers back up the fact that he's simply not a good winger's centre.

I do agree that its a problem throughout the game, including the NRL where someone like Euan Aitken can get close to Origin despite having almost no passing game to speak of. I find that really odd given the evidence when a player like Jamie Lyon shows what a huge difference it makes in attack having a centre who isn't the biggest or fastest, but has great hands and vision. We seem to be moving more and more to big, yard gaining centres without any kind of rugby brain, and its a shame.

Kettle and pot comes to mind. I didn't realise we were talking about ancient history?

It would appear you are struggling with players that are still alive

Isn't this just rugby league in general. Seems like we're going to end up with a game full of second rowers

So you want to discount the history books and and record breakers of Rugby League because they disprove your point do you? Or are you suggesting that Superleague players with the modern light weight grippy ball cannot pass to the right as well as players in past years when they had the handicap of a heavy leather ball?

All the players I mentioned created their records on the right wing and I see no reason why the left side should produce more tries these days that the right side as you have made out.

unsurprisingly Joel Moon dropped tonight.

Lol. Back injury apparantly.

Oh, so that’s why he refused to fly last week so he could be home for his sons birthday?

Ok.

2016 Denny Solomna, 2017 Greg Eden. Both scored over 40 tries for Cas on the left wing.

If that's true then he should pack his bags now. We shouldn't be interested in any players who are not 100% committed to the team.

Its not true. The same thing was said of Paul Aiton when he was rumoured to be leaving the club.

A similar excuse has been giving for Ormondroyd not being in team. He chose birth of his 1st child over playing for team so his face no longer fits.

Maybe just maybe didnt fly to Catalans due to his injury issues and sitting on a plane for 3 to 4 hours wasnt in his best interests and he didnt play last night as he hasnt fully recovered?

What's going on with Joel Moon. we lose Watkins & Keinhorst to injuries but no mention of Moons return.
He's not mentioned about players missing. Has he upset BM and he's holding a grudge or is there some other sinister reason
At the moment we desperately need him as Sutcliffe and Handley in the centres is a worrying prospect