Correct.



Michael Monaghan didn't win the Lance Todd Trophy in 2010.
Lee Briers did.
HTH

No, not one bit

Your trolling skills have definitely lost their mojo recently

No trolling involved at all.

I've merely pointed out the absurdity of selective references to SL dream teams, Harry Sunderland's and the number SL rings as evidence of a player being better than another.

That's when you decided to shift the goalposts to your opinion.

If you're comfortable always lining up alongside a G1 agenda, then I guess that's your choice

Only one of us shifted the goal posts and avoided answering questions

Where did I mention SL rings or Harry Sunderland's? the dream team placement is for a season long effort and Buderus has not managed to convince the panel of judges (not me or you) that he has been the best hooker in the competition in either of the seasons he has been with Leeds and I doubt he will get it this year.

My initial response was to Sal Paradise's claim that "Buderus has never been overshadowed by any 9 in this comp", I will ask again but I'm sure you still wont answer, do you think Buderus played better than Monaghan in the CC final last year?


What has this got to do with G1?

Nothing. You've seen through his bluster and his tired old routine and he doesn't like it. He's wriggling on your hook and lashing out wildly in any direction.

It quite sad to see really.

I'm sure Buderus wasn't the only Leeds player embarrassed by his performance at Wembley last year. Hopefully they'll do a lot better this time round.

My point is this - on any given day a player can have an off day - it happens, even Clark Sinfield has his moments - his performance at Wembley was hardly anything to write home about!! The less said about his performance in the Huddersfield semi of 2006 the better!!

Yes he may be able to walk across the River Aire unaided but even he has off days.

In the SL comp Buderus consistently performs to a very high level - especially defensively - comparable to any other nine in the comp.

His achievements in the game particularly at the highest most intense level - the NRL, SOO and internationally - stand comparison with any player in the modern game. Anyone who thinks Diskin's achievements in a second rate competition - where only 3/4 teams have a chance of winning it - come close is wearing blinkers.

Yes Leeds may have won more GF's with Diskin in the side but that doesn't make him a better player.

I agree with all of that and to be honest I'm not sure anyone has questioned any of the points you raise.

Nobody has. It's how the agenda driven Buderus acolytes always respond. It's the diatribe they trot out whenever there's any criticism of him.

Shall I remind them what was being discussed, as their bluff, bluster and misdirection may have made some forget.

Here's the statement Sal made, "anyone who watches what is happening front of their eyes can see Buderus has never been overshadowed by any 9 in this comp"

You pointed out that he hadn't made the dream team in any of his previous two years here and also pointed to Monaghan's and Buderus's displays in last years cup final.

I think it's clear that to say Buderus has NEVER been overshadowed by any number 9 in this comp is simply unsubstantiated hyperbole, as upsetting as that may be to his adoring fan base.

I also suspect you're beginning to understand what I say about our fans (which has always been my point, never a comparison of players) illogical love affair with Buderus and lukewarm feelings towards a proper Leeds legend like Diskin. It is, quite frankly, illogical the reverence one is held in and the bordering on disdain for the other, despite their respective Leeds careers and acheivements.

I'm pretty sure this thread was originally about Diskin and it wasn't me who shifted the goalposts in order to accommodate G1's tiresome anti-Buderus agenda.

I've already established that the composition of SL Dream Teams are open to ridicule [url=http://viewtopic.php?p=16344918#p16344918HERE[/url and do not form a legitimate basis for establishing the credentials of one player over and above another. If you believe they do, then please explain why.

Barring retaliatory responses to agenda-driven dribble just for fun, I see no reason to single out an individual player for what was a collective poor team performance throughout in that CC Final last year. Only someone with an agenda would wish to follow that particular route.

It's his agenda... not yours

And the answer to the question I asked you earlier [url=http://viewtopic.php?p=16348427#p16348427HERE[/url is.....?

Correct.
It was Ryan Hall.


Regards,
Auntie Kirke.

I really dont understand all this 'agenda' rubbish on this board. And, it doesnt even appear that people have a difference of opinion - how this conversation still goes on I dont know.

Buderus as an individual has clearly been a better player in the past than Diskin - Buderus was afterall one of if not the best 9 in the world. That is not to take away from Diskin - at his best, he was one of, if not the best 9 in superleague at that time. Buderus in reality is still the better individual player at this moment in time.

Looking at their respective Leeds careers, Diskin clearly achieved more and formed a major part in our most successful sides ever. Buderus, although the better player technically, has not been part of as much success. Therefore Diskin will nO doubt go down in history as having a better Leeds career than Buderus.

You could use the same logic and arguement about Hanley and Sinfield - Hanley was the better individual (and won trophies and acknowledgements elsewhere) and is a legend of the game, however Sinfield, although not a better individual player, will show as being much more successful as a Leeds player, and much more important than Hanley in the clubs history.

How can there be any arguement?

When you consider one is currently a 100% committed Leeds player while the other manages property while also turning out for a rival team I fail to really see what the problem is.

Most Leeds fans appear to remain fairly positive with Diskin's worthy contributions to past triumphs.

If anything deserves to be deemed illogical (on a Leeds fan forum) it's perhaps the sniping at current Leeds players rather than past ones?

Like someone might have indulged in last year viz a viz Scott Donald and Jodie Broughton perhaps?

Cunningham, Lowes and Cunningham.

[url=http://www.superleague.co.uk/page/19962006/720This[/url might prove useful.

I see Diskin was recognized as the best hooker in the league in 2004 by the impartial, non agenda driven selectors of the dream team to add to his Leeds player of the year and Harry Sunderland award that year. Not a bad season personally for t'lad.

Diskin in 2004 was one of our stand out players, and one of the major reasons we were successful. He was both consistent (winning player of the year & dream team) but also able to provide performances that stood out when it mattered. Diskin was up there with Sinfield & McGuire as the top performers in one of the best GF winning teams over the season,

However, Diskin after his injury was a shadow of his former self. Yes, we still picked up trophies in 2007, 2008 & 2009. He was nowhere near as influential during those seasons as he was in 2004. You could argue the same with Senior, he was a member of the squad in 2009, but he was nowhere near the class that he was in 2004. Being part of a winning squad is very different to being one of the players you could say was a key part in that success. In 2004 Diskin was in that top influential group, in the later win I think his influence level was more of the Good Solid performance level, but not one of those players who 'made a real difference'. Thats not to say there weren't stand out moments of brilliance, there were, but he was probably well down the list of key threats on opposition analysis boards, though still ahead of Kirke

Without getting involved in the petty argument as I have made me feelings on Diskin and Buderus (both of whom I hold in pretty high regard) clear in the past, who do you think will be the Dream Team hooker this year? I think Buderus must have a very good chance based on his consistent high level of performance. I can't of many who have been better - Roby and Monaghan would be in contention I guess

It will be either Roby or Monaghan.

Probably but you could argue both have had an easier job in the sides they play in. I would argue Roby and Buderus are more influential for their current teams than Monghan is.

Roby has - at times - carried that Saints pack this season IMO.

However, if Warrington go on to win the Grand Final I wouldn't be surprised to see a Dream Team packed with Wire players.

I'd argue the opposite. Monaghan makes Wire tick, and they don't look anything like the same team when he doesn't play.

I always feel when playing Saints if you can stop Roby you've won half the battle. With Wire I would argue Briers is that person and is much more important to them.

Last year?

Re Donald V's Broughton/Jones-Bishop/Watkins, that was a discussion from 2009 regarding 1st grade options for 2010.

I've moved on from then as first Broughton and then Donald left the club (making any further discussions about the decisions taken - whether right or wrong - somewhat pointless) but I'll still engage with posters who wish to remember those discussions if they choose to instigate them - only not at such length anymore.