Can't beat people with knowledge - pity that doesn't include you.

In 2014 you said once they had got the monkey off their back they would kick on - they didn't did they!! so I would say your hit rate is patchy at best and more to do with luck i.e. McGuire's stroke of genius - than any superior knowledge you might have

What we see from you a spoilt little child who thinks its OK to hurl personal abuse when someone doesn't tow the line - a bully who doesn't like his views challenged. Someone who jumps up and down when they right but find a host of excuses when they are not. Not clever not even close to being on a par with many on here - grow up and realise you don't get it right even half the time.

Perhaps sometime spent attending games might keep you off here a bit and it might give you perspective - RL is a game, a form of entertainment nothing more.

Of those you've named though, where are they now? Mulhern might do alright at Hull KR. Minchella and Foster won't make it in SL IMO. Ward's off playing bush league in Australia.

Maybe it's not what the club did, maybe they just didn't have the ability to start with.

Yea but we never really gave them a chance, they couldve been great if we gave them a chance in our team but as soon as a more established player was back they were sent away
Weve also had the Gale and the Burgess twins in our set up but they wernt given a chance either and were shipped on, all three will be in the england squad at the end of the year

Could they have been great? Perhaps, the likelihood is not. Of course Leeds may have made a "mistake" on the retention of players, it's much more an art than a science, but considering none have really gone on to be top players suggests the club probably got it right on most occasions.

Re the Burgess twins, IIRC they rejected deals from Leeds and opted to move to Bradford. Whilst they had great reputations at the time they were still several years away from making first team rugby, so they don't really fit in with the argument that Leeds chose an established player over them.
As for Gale, which of McGuire, Burrow or Sinfield would you have got rid of in 2007/08 to accommodate him in the squad?

Also don't forget that plenty of Leeds academy products who were developed into regular first teamers left of their own accord.

My worry is the next Sinfield or Mcguire or Peacock doesnt get their shot and either ends up at another club o never hits their potential
Baldwinson was young player of the year in the Championship but three rounds in he still hasnt got a look in even with all the injuries, hes one of a long list who have captained their country at accedemy level but havnt become first team players, I dont think we're progressing them enough

I didn't say that in regards to the remainder of 2014 post cup final at all. In fact I said they'd spent so much of their focus getting the cup that once it was gone they could kick on in regards to the following season, I was one of the least surprised on here that they couldn't get up again after the high of Wembley.



Oh get of your high horse, you're the first to come charging in when someone's opinion is different and usually dismiss it as blue and amber specs and nothing more (note the "towing the party line" comment above) and say they had a lucky guess.

As for throwing abuse around, yes I did to William, a guy who spends 90% of his time on here insulting people yet you've got the hypocrisy to defend him when some gets thrown back his way. It's cringeworthy watching you defend him.

I see that because I don't attend some games it's a great source of concern for you (really you're just trying to have a pop to show me up.....ironic your bullying rant above then isn't it). If you must know I have been saving for and recently bought my first house, at this point in time I'm not going to travel to every single away game (only 3 last year) as I'm being financially sensible. I usually attend home games but missed a couple last year due to a mates 30th birthday one night and another friend stag do another. Sorry if these are unreasonable reasons for not attending as much as you would like at this present point in my life, I'm sure I'm not the only person who has a period in the lives when they can't attend as much as they would want to.

Printer- no need to explain yourself, there are plenty have their reasons for not going every week. I didn't miss a game home and away for over a decade pre SL but since have only been able to go sporadically due to being in the military and my subsequent job commitments and life in general getting in the way of being able to get there every friday night.

I apologise for butting in you and Sal's little spat but it really grips my S*!T when people start throwing around the 'loyal supporter' card when its not as cut and dry as that.I didn't realise you had to go to every game to have an opinion on the team you have supported all your life, or if you do it is somehow invalid to in some peoples eyes on here.

That's ok mate. I made some light hearted dig at how tvoc was only appearing on here last year after games we lost, Sal misread and thought it was about him and instead of accepting he misread it he's kept up this "at least I went/go"

I saw the twins a few times in Bradford's academy & saw nothing other than a couple of big lads. With a nice mum.

Following up on comments re Luke Gale, I'd make the observation that even now he still has a hell of a lot to prove. Good player, yes, but until he's been tested in truly big games - and delivered in them - he sits more towards the Matty Smith end of the spectrum than he does the Kevin Sinfield one. That's not to say he won't yet do it with Cas but he's certainly running the risk of hitting a glass ceiling in terms of what his career could be.

As far Mulhern goes, pretty sure we wanted to keep him but he wanted to leave.

As for Baldwinson, we're only 3 rounds in. I remember loads of fretting when Singleton didn't use to get picked and look at him now, barely missed a game last year and will make the team every week usually barring injury or suspension.

That's incredibly harsh on Gale. He obliterates fatty Smith in all offensive stats; tries scored, assists, metres made, tackle busts, also misses less tackles, a better kicker & misses less kicks. He leads Cas around the pitch & has stood up impressively in Shenton's absence. Smith is a mediocre kicker who flaps his arms around at every play the ball to impress those watching. Sinfield was by no means the best rugby player I have seen in a Leeds shirt, but he was a true leader & ultimate professional, both of which take time to develop. Gale is progressing in that department, Smith is not even on the same planet.

Would that be the Matty Smith who won the Man of the Match in the Third Test then? Or is the same Matty Smith who won the double including Lance Todd trophy? When Gale gets to that level give me a shout. Remind me how many Cup Finals and Test Matches he's played in again? (So how the hell can you compare him if he's never played at the highest level?)

Smith's contribution to that third test was 2 or 3 good kicks which made the NZ FB back track to collect. That was it. Widdop did the organising, McGilvray was head & shoulders MoM. He got Lance Todd in the worst final in history in a monsoon, with a few kicks. If Gale ever gets to the level of Smith & is still in a Cas shirt I will assassinate him for the good of the club.

Yeah, maybe I didn't put that too well. I'd certainly agree he's potentially a better player; what I meant was he's not (yet) a winning player. And while there are plenty of journeymen who win medals and rings on the backs of better players, there aren't too many great players who go through a career and win nowt. My opinion is - and it's only opinion - is that it's really difficult to gauge a player's true quality until they've been put in the position where their team lives or dies by their performance in a truly pressurised environment. Which Smith and Sinfield both have. So, while I'd agree that Gale is progressing in terms of leadership and professionalism, he'll soon need a bigger platform. Hopefully, for the good of the game, Cas can make that step up too and he can see it through with them.

Widdop had an absolute mare. Smith did the organising which was absent in the first two tests. McGilvary had a good debut but had no say in the result. Smith set up Whiteheads second try.

I think Gale is a good player and I hope he has a good season. But when McNamara needed someone to turn to it wasn't Gale. It proved to be a good decision. After all, he'd seen them both at close quarters for a month or so. Like Sir Kev, Smith seems to be an underrated player by fans of other clubs (even, rather shamefully, many of his own), but not his team mates and coach though.

I thought it would be difficult this season, I suspect next season may also prove difficult.
The one factor in our favour is the relatively poor standard in the current super league.
Whilst Wigan are unbeaten they are not playing well, saints are in meltdown.
The only side which looks good is warrington.

I have said as much elsewhere....

That's why I still believe Leeds have a good chance of silverware this season, depending on the CC draw and bodies fit at end of the season. No chance though of the LLS of course

Probably our best chance would be the challenge cup. I can foresee most clubs would not fancy drawing us in a one off game. Either in the early rounds or at wembly.

It looks like some of the supposed 'top' sides are having a really slow start, which is impacting quality.

I wonder if the effort of the Super 8s last year has made some sides aim to peak a bit later rather than start at full speed?

I watched the GF again the other day and the quality of the game was way down on the previous GF in 2012, with both sides looking completely spent at times. Maybe Super 8s will take some time to adjust to?

I'm becoming of a mind that I'd like to see SL move to an odd number of teams, purely because it means players will get a week off a couple of times a season even if they make it to both finals.

Was it 36 consecutive weeks Leeds played last season, and then we're expecting some of those players to have two weeks off and play another three games at international level?

It's funny how things spring to mind when the teams finding the going a little difficult . Don't worry you will not be at the bottom of the pile for long and thinking about reducing the comp will soon be a distant thought.

Look back, most people commenting on this thread have said the same or acknowledged the issues long before the start of this season.

We played 37 games in 2012. A few played in them all, but in the GF everyone looked fresh as a daisy. Its not just quantity but quality that matters.

That is why any comparison with players in the NRL falls down - they play less games but the games they do play are more intense especially those who play SOO