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Another one who, without hindsight-bias, was confused when we let Amor go and said so at the time after the first year at Wakefield. He was the best prop on the pitch other than JP in our games with the Wildcats that year, looked impressive in the other couple of games I saw him television, and got rave reviews all season on the Wakey board. If it was a salary or space issue, the decision, loyal or not and decent as Kylie was last year, to keep Kylie was incorrect if it was a straight choice between him and the much younger man. And that's without bringing Kirke or Bailey into it or considering this year. Isn't that *exactly* what a loan to a SL club is for? To give a promising player first-team experience, get them battle-hardened and see how they cope before promoting them back into the fold?
Also, weren't we courting Alex Walmsley for a while, with reports of GH wining him at Headingley? He's a work in progress, but The spot he would have taken was filled up by Mitch Achurch, possibly to justify an otherwise empty-handed jaunt down-under. The Peacock succession policy would look a lot smoother with those two on the books.
Could be worse though. To Backwoodsman, there is soething that can surpass turning Jason Robinson away, and that's turning Ellery Hanley away.
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I believe i too was one who presented the case for Amor to be retained after his one year loan spell at Wakefield never mind when they needed to sell him recently.
I quite understand Amors reluctance to want to come back to us after we left him out to dry and even if we could have paid the asking price I see him turning us down.
Barry Mac raved about him whilst he was at Leeds so it is even more surprising nobody listened to him.
Certainly would have been the best we had after JP.
Not to worry Hill, Walmsley and Amor have gone now but we have got Yates.
Lets hope he makes up for our loss.
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| Quote ="chapylad"
Not to worry Hill, Walmsley and Amor have gone now but we have got Yates.
Lets hope he makes up for our loss.'"
You cant snap up every potential and snap up every potential that will make it.
Look at Paul Johnson, who caught the eye at Dewsbury.
Wakefield and Hull snapped him up, now he's at Widnes at potentially his last crack to keep in Super Leagues. Hes found the jump up between divisions tough. |
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| Quote ="thebloodbath"You cant snap up every potential and snap up every potential that will make it.
Look at Paul Johnson, who caught the eye at Dewsbury.
Wakefield and Hull snapped him up, now he's at Widnes at potentially his last crack to keep in Super Leagues. Hes found the jump up between divisions tough.'"
That`s true but we were apparently looking at Walmsley and could/should have got it before Saints and we had Amor twice and let him go even though others rated him highly.
My point is we seem to miss out on the good signings or potential good signings which is a worry.
I hope young Yates is as good as those we have missed or let go.
Someone has seen the potential in him and that is good news for the long term future in our need to strengthen the pack. |
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Quote ="ThePrinter"Anybody still in any doubt that tvoc is backtracking and avoiding simple questions.'"
You're asking questions that you should have already known the answers to before mashing the figures to make a false comparison.
Quote ="ThePrinter"You said if anything you claimed were wrong you'd leave the board.
So how were the 2013 stats incomplete like you claimed? What games are missing?'"
Those that Opta don't include on that website - and never have..... like ever.
Quote ="ThePrinter"You were wrong to claim that, thus "I'll leave the board if I'm wrong" comes into play
 '"
All Opta stats (at least those you appeared to be using from here - www.superleague.co.uk/stats/player_stats )
have always been incomplete as they have never included every 1st grade game played in any season - which is why when I said both the 2012 and 2013 figures you used were incomplete it was a true statement then and it is no less true today.
__________
Quote ="ThePrinter"I can't correct the stats until you tell me how 2013 was incomplete in terms of games. As I'm of the opinion only 2012 is incomplete then it would be utterly pointless to post new stats as my 2013 numbers would be the same, but you claim an error with them.
Do share.'"
The fact that the Opta stats are incomplete (while being a perfectly true statement) was never the critical flaw in your comparison between 2012 and 2013 - it was always an element =#FF0000[size=150you[/size introduced which skewed the results. That skew (innocently made or not) just happened to favour your conclusion but do the accurate figures?
Either add the missing game's stats into the 2012 figures or remove those additional games from the 2013 figures - so that a comparison (even one that uses an incomplete data set) can be made.
IIRC when I did this most of the six forwards results didn't support your conclusion that followed on page 4 - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=563946&tsmp=1394450501&start=32
Quote ="ThePrinter"An almost entire clean sweep of improvement from 2012 by the whole forwards in the two big departments'"
__________
With the benefit of hindsight perhaps I should have just posted the opening two lines of my first post on this thread and left it at that.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=563946&tsmp=1394451547&start=43 |
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Quote ="ThePrinter"Anybody still in any doubt that tvoc is backtracking and avoiding simple questions.'"
You're asking questions that you should have already known the answers to before mashing the figures to make a false comparison.
Quote ="ThePrinter"You said if anything you claimed were wrong you'd leave the board.
So how were the 2013 stats incomplete like you claimed? What games are missing?'"
Those that Opta don't include on that website - and never have..... like ever.
Quote ="ThePrinter"You were wrong to claim that, thus "I'll leave the board if I'm wrong" comes into play
'"
All Opta stats (at least those you appeared to be using from here - www.superleague.co.uk/stats/player_stats )
have always been incomplete as they have never included every 1st grade game played in any season - which is why when I said both the 2012 and 2013 figures you used were incomplete it was a true statement then and it is no less true today.
__________
Quote ="ThePrinter"I can't correct the stats until you tell me how 2013 was incomplete in terms of games. As I'm of the opinion only 2012 is incomplete then it would be utterly pointless to post new stats as my 2013 numbers would be the same, but you claim an error with them.
Do share.'"
The fact that the Opta stats are incomplete (while being a perfectly true statement) was never the critical flaw in your comparison between 2012 and 2013 - it was always an element =#FF0000[size=150you[/size introduced which skewed the results. That skew (innocently made or not) just happened to favour your conclusion but do the accurate figures?
Either add the missing game's stats into the 2012 figures or remove those additional games from the 2013 figures - so that a comparison (even one that uses an incomplete data set) can be made.
IIRC when I did this most of the six forwards results didn't support your conclusion that followed on page 4 - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=563946&tsmp=1394450501&start=32
Quote ="ThePrinter"An almost entire clean sweep of improvement from 2012 by the whole forwards in the two big departments'"
__________
With the benefit of hindsight perhaps I should have just posted the opening two lines of my first post on this thread and left it at that.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=563946&tsmp=1394451547&start=43 | |
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So how is 2013 incomplete in terms of games played?
Simple question.
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Quote ="tvoc"Either add the missing game's stats into the 2012 figures or remove those additional games from the 2013 figures - so that a comparison (even one that uses an incomplete data set) can be made.
IIRC when I did this most of the six forwards results didn't support your conclusion that followed on page 4 - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=563946&tsmp=1394450501&start=32 '"
That surprises me. Regardless of completeness, The Printer's averages, in most cases, differ quite widely between the years. Some player performances during those missing games must have been, to quote Mick Morgan, darbolical in 2013 and excellent in 2012 to narrow or even close those gaps. |
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Quote ="tvoc"Either add the missing game's stats into the 2012 figures or remove those additional games from the 2013 figures - so that a comparison (even one that uses an incomplete data set) can be made.
IIRC when I did this most of the six forwards results didn't support your conclusion that followed on page 4 - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=563946&tsmp=1394450501&start=32 '"
That surprises me. Regardless of completeness, The Printer's averages, in most cases, differ quite widely between the years. Some player performances during those missing games must have been, to quote Mick Morgan, darbolical in 2013 and excellent in 2012 to narrow or even close those gaps. | |
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| Quote ="ThePrinter"So how is 2013 incomplete in terms of games played?
Simple question.'"
Which has already been simply answered. Those Opta stats have never included all 1st grade games played in any of the seasons they list. They came closer to doing so in 2013 but they are still incomplete.
The relevant part remains that anyone producing averages in order to compare 2013 to any previous season would need to take care that the previous season/s used the equivalent data set.
ThePrinter didn't do this which is why his figures for 2012 were understated giving the false impression of 'across the board improvements' (at least according to the Opts stats) an impression that is unsupported when applying the comparable data set for 2012.
The error has been acknowledged and a corrected post has been previously promised but which is still to appear.
So which is it - can't produce an accurate comparison or won't produce one? |
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| Quote ="Clearwing"That surprises me. Regardless of completeness, The Printer's averages, in most cases, differ quite widely between the years. Some player performances during those missing games must have been, to quote Mick Morgan, darbolical in 2013 and excellent in 2012 to narrow or even close those gaps.'"
I carn't spake.
The completeness of either season's data set wasn't the crucial flaw introduced by ThePrinter that materially changed the outcome.
The inability to produce meaningfull averages for one half of the comparison is where it went pear-shaped.
As stated above his error has been acknowledged, just awaiting his previously promised corrections now. |
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| Quote ="tvoc"Which has already been simply answered.'"
No it hasn't, you've waffled on for ages hoping that length of reply would hide the fact you haven't answered.
WHAT GAMES FROM 2013 ARE MISSING FOR THOSE 6 FORWARDS THAT MAKE 2013 "INCOMPLETE"????
It's like dealing with a child who isn't grown up enough to just say "2013 wasn't incomplete, I was wrong." |
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| Tvoc you've gone suspiciously quiet on the subject, you said 2013 was incomplete in terms of games, I have the following.....
Leuluai = 22 games
Bailey = 14
Delaney = 18
Clarkson = 23
Kirke = 29
JJB = 22
So please correct them and list the correct number of games as 'apparently' mine are incomplete. |
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Oh. This is still going.
Goody.
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| Quote ="ThePrinter"No it hasn't, you've waffled on for ages hoping that length of reply would hide the fact you haven't answered.
WHAT GAMES FROM 2013 ARE MISSING FOR THOSE 6 FORWARDS THAT MAKE 2013 "INCOMPLETE"????'"
The games that Opta (on that site) have never included in their statistics.
Not sure how many times I need to provide the same answer to the same question.
Quote ="ThePrinter"It's like dealing with a child who isn't grown up enough to just say "2013 wasn't incomplete, I was wrong."'"
Why would I say that when those stats don't include all 1st grade games.
__________
Still awaiting the previously promised corrections to your errant posts from page 4 of the thread:
Quote ="ThePrinter"I do look at stats in detail, here's some taking into account a massive factor of amount of games played.
LEULUAI
Games Played - 2013 (22) 2012 (29)
Metres (Average Per Game) - 1860 (84.5) 2005 (69.1)
Tackles - 416 (18.9) 449 (15.4)
BAILEY
Games Played - 2013 (14) 2012 (22)
Metres - 750 (53.6) 1034 (47)
Tackles - 352 (25.1) 425 (19.3)
DELANEY
Games Played - 2013 (1icon_cool.gif 2012 (29)
Metres - 1480 (82.2) 2201 (75.9)
Tackles - 527 (29.3) 769 (26.5)
CLARKSON
Games Played - 2013 (23) 2012 (23)
Metres - 1365 (59.3) 843 (36.7)
Tackles - 575 (25) 450 (19.6)
KIRKE
Games Played - 2013 (29) 2012 (21)
Metres - 1474 (50.9) 1033 (49.2)
Tackles - 583 (20.1) 294 (14)
JJB
Games Played - 2013 (22) 2012 (20)
Metres - 1867 (84.9) 1793 (89.6)
Tackles - 681 (30.9) 531 (26.6)
...................................
All six post a healthy increase in number of tackles made per game. 5 of the 6 made increases in metres made per game. An almost entire clean sweep of improvement from 2012 by the whole forwards in the two big departments, so maybe criticism of them going downhill in 2013 has been incorrect.'"
And
Quote ="ThePrinter"As for more metres per carry, all 6 actually slightly decreased in the department, they ended up with more metres per game by taking more carries in and increasing their workload.
Carries per game.....
JJB = 14.1 (2013) - 12.2 (2012)
LEULUAI = 11.6 - 8.9
DELANEY = 12.3 - 11.2
CLARKSON = 10.3 - 6.3
BAILEY = 9.1 - 7.5
KIRKE = 7.1 - 6.6
So that's Metres made, tackles, and carries they all improved on. Increased workload in both attack and defence.
So the thought that Peacock was the only real one to increase his workload whilst others sat back and let him isn't on the money.'"
They were your chosen statistical comparisons
- you accept you got them wrong
- you had no issue with someone pointing out that they were flawed
- you offered to post an apology and provide the corrected stats
and yet they are still to appear. |
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| So in summary, the 2013 stats aren't incomplete....
Quote ="tvoc"if I'm wrong on this matter I promise to never post on RLFsns again.'"
Clearly not it would seem. |
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Re Amor, it's worth bearing in mind that when he actually played for Leeds he invariably looked poor, at best average. Based on what I saw I, for one, had and still have, no issues with letting him go. There is no reason to think he would ever have overcome his average-ness issues whilst playing for Leeds. Perhaps he is just better suited to a smaller club.
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| Quote ="MjM"Re Amor, it's worth bearing in mind that when he actually played for Leeds he invariably looked poor, at best average. Based on what I saw I, for one, had and still have, no issues with letting him go. There is no reason to think he would ever have overcome his average-ness issues whilst playing for Leeds. Perhaps he is just better suited to a smaller club.'"
But that is less that half the equation. You're right about Amor's displays for Leeds hence the decision to loan him to Wakefield. That is where he really developed and looked clearly, to me, a better forward than all bar Peacock at our club. Obviously, St Helens saw something similar.
Had Leeds released him after his initial displays I'd have not complained. But Leeds were smart, they let Wakey polish the diamond in the rough. Then Leeds were dumb and gave him away. |
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From page 7 -
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=563946&tsmp=1396199864&start=61
Quote ="tvoc"There is nothing inherently wrong with the actual Opta stats used here for 2012 and 2013 =#FF0000once you identify which games are included and which games are not.
Of course you would need to know this =#FF0000in order to produce accurate/meaningful averages just in case you wished to make a comparison between those seasons but I imagine anyone who 'looks at stats in detail' would already be aware of this potential issue.'"
This indicates that the absolute completeness of the data-sets for 2012 and 2013 wasn't the key issue here. What was and remains crucial to the outcome is to know which games are included and ensure you divide the totals by the relevant number of appearances in each case.
ThePrinter evidently didn't and consequently produced inaccurate results for all six players.
And from page 9 -
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=563946&tsmp=1396201916&start=81
Quote ="tvoc"=#FF0000Some of ThePrinters stats in question here are wrong.'"
Because of the error (introduced by ThePrinter) all of the outcomes - in terms of the comparison between the 2012 and 2013 seasons for the six named forwards - were inaccurate. IIRC all the 2013 statistical improvements claimed were overstated - some to the point of actually pointing to a decline. This decline (unrecognisable from the figures ThePrinter produced) if anything actually supported the views ThePrinter was seeking to challenge.
Despite ThePrinter's previous promise to post the corrected figures they are still to appear and the question of can't or won't remains unresolved.
__________
Quote ="ThePrinter"So in summary, the 2013 stats aren't incomplete....'"
Do they include all 1st grade games involving Leeds in 2013?
A simple 'yes' or 'no' answer will suffice. If 'no' then they are incomplete but as already explained in the examples from earlier above - for the purpose of your chosen comparisons it doesn't really matter that they are incomplete but what certainly does matter is knowing which games are in and which games are not in order to produce accurate averages in order to make the comparisons to the previous season.
Of course it's absolutely crucial for both sides of a comparison to be accurate in order to get a fair result and the major flaw introduced by ThePrinter concerns the calculations he used for 2012. No amount of focus on the largely accepted 2013 figures will alter the false averages produced from the 2012 data-set.
Quote ="ThePrinter"I do look at stats in detail, here's some taking into account [size=150a massive factor of amount of games played[/size.'"
No doubting that it was a massive factor and no question then that it would be crucial to the outcome to get it right ......but you didn't did you? You've undermined your own credibility in this area having assuredly invited the attention with your -
Quote ="ThePrinter"but check the stats I've posted. All forwards improved in key areas in 2013. I don't say things out of blind loyalty, I say them because they hold some weight.'"
But did they improve when using the correct calculations? Difficult to determine how much weight your view actually holds over those alternative views that you were challenging when the statistical analysis you used as evidence was corrupted at your hands.
Will we ever get to see the previously promised corrected figures?
Quote ="ThePrinter"Clearly not it would seem.'"
The matter in question that I was referring to was whether or not you had made an accurate statistical comparison between the 2012 and 2013 season in terms of the named six players.
You hadn't but for the removal of any doubt (not that any exists) no-one need take my word for it when there are these contributions already:
Quote ="ThePrinter" I come out of this with some miscalculations'"
Quote ="ThePrinter" I knew at some point they wouldn't hold up '"
Quote ="ThePrinter"yep I got some numbers wrong '"
Quote ="ThePrinter" I never not once didn't ACCEPT he (tvoc) was correct '"
Quote ="ThePrinter"I've not had any problem that he found a problem with my stats. If someone spots a flaw with them by all means do tell so we don't get incorrect results'"
Quote ="ThePrinter"Sure you can have an apology and a list of corrected stats'"
__________
So perhaps it's time for you to finally post your corrected figures and we'll see just how many of your previous statements regarding the improvements in certain forwards in 2013 are backed (or disputed) by your chosen Opta averages. |
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From page 7 -
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=563946&tsmp=1396199864&start=61
Quote ="tvoc"There is nothing inherently wrong with the actual Opta stats used here for 2012 and 2013 =#FF0000once you identify which games are included and which games are not.
Of course you would need to know this =#FF0000in order to produce accurate/meaningful averages just in case you wished to make a comparison between those seasons but I imagine anyone who 'looks at stats in detail' would already be aware of this potential issue.'"
This indicates that the absolute completeness of the data-sets for 2012 and 2013 wasn't the key issue here. What was and remains crucial to the outcome is to know which games are included and ensure you divide the totals by the relevant number of appearances in each case.
ThePrinter evidently didn't and consequently produced inaccurate results for all six players.
And from page 9 -
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=563946&tsmp=1396201916&start=81
Quote ="tvoc"=#FF0000Some of ThePrinters stats in question here are wrong.'"
Because of the error (introduced by ThePrinter) all of the outcomes - in terms of the comparison between the 2012 and 2013 seasons for the six named forwards - were inaccurate. IIRC all the 2013 statistical improvements claimed were overstated - some to the point of actually pointing to a decline. This decline (unrecognisable from the figures ThePrinter produced) if anything actually supported the views ThePrinter was seeking to challenge.
Despite ThePrinter's previous promise to post the corrected figures they are still to appear and the question of can't or won't remains unresolved.
__________
Quote ="ThePrinter"So in summary, the 2013 stats aren't incomplete....'"
Do they include all 1st grade games involving Leeds in 2013?
A simple 'yes' or 'no' answer will suffice. If 'no' then they are incomplete but as already explained in the examples from earlier above - for the purpose of your chosen comparisons it doesn't really matter that they are incomplete but what certainly does matter is knowing which games are in and which games are not in order to produce accurate averages in order to make the comparisons to the previous season.
Of course it's absolutely crucial for both sides of a comparison to be accurate in order to get a fair result and the major flaw introduced by ThePrinter concerns the calculations he used for 2012. No amount of focus on the largely accepted 2013 figures will alter the false averages produced from the 2012 data-set.
Quote ="ThePrinter"I do look at stats in detail, here's some taking into account [size=150a massive factor of amount of games played[/size.'"
No doubting that it was a massive factor and no question then that it would be crucial to the outcome to get it right ......but you didn't did you? You've undermined your own credibility in this area having assuredly invited the attention with your -
Quote ="ThePrinter"but check the stats I've posted. All forwards improved in key areas in 2013. I don't say things out of blind loyalty, I say them because they hold some weight.'"
But did they improve when using the correct calculations? Difficult to determine how much weight your view actually holds over those alternative views that you were challenging when the statistical analysis you used as evidence was corrupted at your hands.
Will we ever get to see the previously promised corrected figures?
Quote ="ThePrinter"Clearly not it would seem.'"
The matter in question that I was referring to was whether or not you had made an accurate statistical comparison between the 2012 and 2013 season in terms of the named six players.
You hadn't but for the removal of any doubt (not that any exists) no-one need take my word for it when there are these contributions already:
Quote ="ThePrinter" I come out of this with some miscalculations'"
Quote ="ThePrinter" I knew at some point they wouldn't hold up '"
Quote ="ThePrinter"yep I got some numbers wrong '"
Quote ="ThePrinter" I never not once didn't ACCEPT he (tvoc) was correct '"
Quote ="ThePrinter"I've not had any problem that he found a problem with my stats. If someone spots a flaw with them by all means do tell so we don't get incorrect results'"
Quote ="ThePrinter"Sure you can have an apology and a list of corrected stats'"
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So perhaps it's time for you to finally post your corrected figures and we'll see just how many of your previous statements regarding the improvements in certain forwards in 2013 are backed (or disputed) by your chosen Opta averages. | |
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2013
LEULUAI - 22 games played
Metres 1860 (84.5)
Tackles 416 (18.9)
Carries per game - 11.6
BAILEY - 14
Metres 750 (53.6)
Tackles 352 (25.1)
Carries - 9.1
DELANEY - 18
Metres 1480 (82.2)
Tackles 527 (29.3)
Carries - 12.3
CLARKSON - 23
Metres 1365 (59.3)
Tackles 575 (25)
Carries - 10.3
KIRKE - 29
Metres - 1474 (50.9)
Tackles - 583 (20.1)
Carries - 7.1
JJB - 22
Metres - 1867 (84.9)
Tackles - 681 (30.9)
Carries - 14.1
There you go, that's the first half of my amended stats......right or wrong?
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| Quote ="tvoc"No amount of focus on the largely accepted 2013 figures'"
But previously it was......
Quote ="tvoc"The total metres and total stats for the two seasons are not comparable - BOTH are incomplete in terms of all first grade games played but the 2012 stats are MORE incomplete than 2013.'"
Quote ="tvoc"Both were incomplete in terms of Leeds 1st grade games but in this specific instance the relevant part is that 2012 were even more incomplete than 2013. '"
Ooooops! |
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Perhaps you need to go a little deeper than 'oooops' if wishing to highlight an 'apparent' contradiction.
The 2013 figures are largely accepted because whilst accurately described as incomplete in terms of all 1st grade games the averages that resulted at least were indicative of the data-set from which they were drawn.
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To your amended stat post: Assuming these are the previously witnessed and largely accepted figures from a known data-set, we're half way there just as we were when they first appeared on page 4 some 54 days ago.
54 days for a cut and paste, let's just hope the amended and comparable other half turn up before anyone loses interest.
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| Quote ="tvoc"Perhaps you need to go a little deeper than 'oooops' if wishing to highlight an 'apparent' contradiction.
The 2013 figures are largely accepted because whilst accurately described as incomplete in terms of all 1st grade games the averages that resulted at least were indicative of the data-set from which they were drawn.'"
The 2013 figures are largely accepted because they were right all along.....your previous claim of them being incomplete was just pure and simply YOU BEING WRONG. People can knock me for getting something wrong too, but at least I'm decent enough to admit my mistakes. Shame some others on here aren't.
Quote ="tvoc"To your amended stat post: Assuming these are the previously witnessed and largely accepted figures from a known data-set, we're half way there just as we were when they first appeared on page 4 some 54 days ago.
54 days for a cut and paste, let's just hope the amended and comparable other half turn up before anyone loses interest.'"
I think that happened about 40+ days ago. If only you'd have asked sensibly for a re-edit straight away instead of going for your John Wayne Loser Leaves Town plan. |
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| Quote ="ThePrinter"The 2013 figures are largely accepted because they were right all along.....your previous claim of them being incomplete was just pure and simply YOU BEING WRONG. People can knock me for getting something wrong too, but at least I'm decent enough to admit my mistakes. Shame some others on here aren't. '"
Do the 2013 figures from Opta include all Leeds' 1st grade games from that season ?
If the answer is NO (and it always has been) how can someone accurately stating that fact be wrong ?
One of us created a flawed comparison because they simply didn't understand the data-set used by Opta in 2012 as opposed to the one used in 2013 - for the removal of any doubt, that would be you - while the other merely pointed out that it would be foolish to attach any relevance to the outcomes of the flawed comparison.
Quote ="ThePrinter"I think that happened about 40+ days ago. '"
No doubt but as long as you continue to hark back to this debate elsewhere within this forum there may be some who may care for a refresher (the last couple of pages should suffice) and wonder as I do if you'll ever post the corrected 2012 figures and see if they support your initial statements from around the page 4 area.
Quote ="ThePrinter"If only you'd have asked sensibly for a re-edit straight away instead of going for your John Wayne Loser Leaves Town plan.'"
If only you had put some accurate comparisons up for discussion in the first place. If only you had put some quality effort in before telling people -off the back of stats you mangled - that they should
Quote ="ThePrinter"but check the stats I've posted. All forwards improved in key areas in 2013. I don't say things out of blind loyalty, I say them because they hold some weight.'"
Perhaps it's about time you finally posted the accurate figures (those from 2012 comparable to the data-set used for 2013 - or reduce 2013 to make them comparable to the data-set of 2012) to see how much weight they actually hold - I imagine people will have long since drawn their own conclusions as to why the previously promised corrected stats have never appeared. |
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| Quote ="tvoc"I imagine people will have long since drawn their own conclusions as to why the previously promised corrected stats have never appeared.'"
Well I for one certainly have................. |
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