Yes really. Fantasy/Theory whatever, the salary cap wasn't in the equasion. It was simply comparing Saints back line to ours.

Richie was suggesting that they weren't better man for man and I disagreed. He asked me who'd i'd swap for who and I responded.

Where do Shaun Ainscough and Peter Fox feature in this discussion?

I think he meant ever

Thanks, I completely get the reference now.

Keith Senior, right.

I think Smith is right in some parts - we were awful (obviously) and, despite what Bluey has said, I don't remeber us being that bad for quite a while. We haven't played well really this season, except perhaps the first half against Wigan and in fits and starts at other times. I'm also greatly concerned about our attack as too often we seem devoid of ideas and predictable.

I don't necessarily agree with being short in the centre and second row. Firstly, second row is one of the best covered positions in the squad with five players in our squad of 24 (JJB, Lauitiiti, Kirke, Ablett and Worrall as cover) having second row as their position of choice plus Peacock. As I expect us to have three second rowers in our 17 (expecting a bench of hooker, back rower and two props) that should be enough cover. Obviously losing a second rower of the quality of Ellis is a massive loss but, short of acquiring someone of the calibre of Hindmarsh or Watmough, a like-for-like replacement is difficult to come by. Jones-Buchanan with either Lauitiiti or Kirke with the other on the bench is a pretty decent trio as far as I am concerned. I'm much more concerned about the front row for which we have 4 props, two of whom will start with the other two presumably on the bench and no cover. Bearing in mind that two of these (Burgess and Leuluai) can only play in short bursts it seems and can be leaden-footed on defence, one of whom (Leuluai) is having a very poor run of form, and another of whom (Bailey) is inconsistent, we're rather thin on the ground here. Having a fifth prop would provide cover, depth and also allow Peacock to be switched to second row to provide a class replacement for Ellis. I do wonder if we've missed a trick by not going for Ryles, assuming we didn't.

Right centre seems to be the scape-goat for Leeds, at least since Toopi's injury if not from before. I'm certain Ablett isn't the answer and persisting with him there is not doing him or the team any favours. I think Watkins has potential but may not be ready yet for week-in, week-out Super League. I think Gibson was harshly dropped and would give him another go. He was doing OK, getting better and was a long way from being our worst player against Saints after which he was dropped. Realistically, at least until Smith returns and that experiment can be tried, I think he is our best option. It's all very well saying we should sign someone but who is there available that we could get now? One thing I would do is switch Donald, when he returns, to the left wing as he looks totally lost on the right. Two good seasons for us whilst playing left wing plus one and a bit seasons looking distinctly hit and miss playing on the right. Why do we need to have our best winger and centre on opposite sides? - we didn't last year or the year before, didn't on Monday (bizarrely) and Saints don't do it either.

The fact is that we've lost twice over Easter to average sides and, bearing in mind the cup game against Saints was at home and the winners would be hot favourites to win the cup, we've lost three games in a row that we should have won and haven't played well in any of them. We haven't lost them, though, because of deficiences in the squad but because the players, individually and/or collectively, have not played well enough and, epecially in the last two games, nowhere near their potential. The squad is light in places, we've had some bad calls but they are not the reason we've lost or played poorly. That's because of a repeatedly poor kicking, conceding too many silly penalties and a lack of cohesion in attack. The biggest concern for me was that these were in evidence against Saints and were not rectified in the two Easter games.

That about sums it up for me. Add in the fact that Webb and Buderus have missed a lot of time with injury and will still be feeling their way back I don't think there is too much to worry about. It is time for Bluey to prove his credentials now though

Well said that man ! Keep experimenting with what we have on the right if we must between Smith/Hall/Gibson and Watkins....but for gawd's sake get Scotty back on the left with Senior...so we have at least some guaranteed attacking threat.

with some bone removed I noticed immediate improvement - after two weeks I am walking better than preop and able to sit for a short time. What I have noticed is as the swelling is reduced I still haven't recovered flexibility and I am still suprised when (for example) I sneeze it doesn't hurt. With some imaginiation scale that out to a professional sportsman in a collision sport. Brent Webb is going to take to time to get match sharp/fit and be fully confident that he is going to be OK. I have every confidence that he will be OK and recover his form. After all Brent Tate recovered from a serious neck injury that could have stopped his career.

A sensible post, speaking from experience and fact. There really is no place for you on southstander.com.

Well said mate.

Interesting point regarding the props and i think it's gone under the radar the problems there at the moment. It's a major reason why the halfs aren't getting going and why we also look like we're going sideways alot..

JMT simply appears to have collected the best/worse (depending on your viewpoint) from this forum over the past month or so and stuck it all together in a single post. As it happens I share his point of view or to put it another way he shares mine and the others who got in there first.

Tetchy?

Just my honest opinion, not intended to be a compilation of the best/worst posts. I know not everyone agrees with everything as some seem to think that Gibson should never make the first team again. I, on the other hand, think he's been harshly dropped, has potential and is our best option for right centre at the moment. Some also seem to agree with Peter Smith re. second row but I think we have got far more pressing priorities that need addressing. However I expect many will agree with some points as I think they're obvious - the persitent flaws of bad discipline, poor kicking game and lack of ideas/structure/cohesion on attack. As I said, my gravest concern is that these were all too evident against Saints and were simply repeated against Bradford so they had not been addressed at all successfully. They, rather than recruitment, are our biggest priority at the moment and I think Bluey has got some work to do. I should also have included that one person who should be free from criticism is Jamie Peacock - he was our best at Odsal in my opinion and certainly our best on Monday - the only one who didn't disappoint and didn't deserve to be on the losing side. Wholehearted effort, scored a good try and was very good supporting Webb when he had just passed the interception pass that guaranteed defeat.

If you like. If he'd been saying it since the Warrington game he'd get more plaudits though.





And nothing wrong with expressing it. My only issue here is these problems have been evident long before the St Helens cup game you keep going back to. For me it's an issue with the strength of the squad assembled for this season and has been all along. The coach hasn't been given all the tools he requires to do the job. Some of the tools he has been given are breaking down and could do with a week in the repair shop but he hasn't been given enough back up's of the required standard so he's opting to keep the blunt ones in his bag.

And regardless of what the season ends with, you have been proven exactly right at this time with those comments.

I agree that the strength of squad is not what it could be, but I don't think its to blame for the current lack of form, independant of when it started. To me the tactics look wrong

Agreed. I said from word go the squad didn't look too good.

You can have all the tactics you want, but if your players aren't performing the basics properly and you don't quite have the players to perform, then tactics are irrelavant.

You can polish it up however you like.

The players we currently have can not play to those tactics that are asked of them. We dont have other options for players, therefore we have a problem.

Quote ="DISA"You can polish it up however you like. The players we currently have can not play to those tactics that are asked of them. We dont have other options for players, therefore we have a problem.'" No, the players have not adapted to the tactics asked of them yet. There is a difference. It is too soon to say whether they can play to the tactics yet. The problem lies in the fact that thje pre season for the full squad amounted to 15 days meaning they are still picking up on the tactics as the season is in progress. www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-news/spor ... CC-chances

Quote ="DISA"You can polish it up however you like. The players we currently have can not play to those tactics that are asked of them. We dont have other options for players, therefore we have a problem.'" No, the players have not adapted to the tactics asked of them yet. There is a difference. It is too soon to say whether they can play to the tactics yet. The problem lies in the fact that thje pre season for the full squad amounted to 15 days meaning they are still picking up on the tactics as the season is in progress. www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-news/spor ... CC-chances

Quote ="Dirty Pretty Thing"No, the players have not adapted to the tactics asked of them yet. There is a difference. It is too soon to say whether they can play to the tactics yet. The problem lies in the fact that thje pre season for the full squad amounted to 15 days meaning they are still picking up on the tactics as the season is in progress. www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-news/spor ... CC-chances'" The mindset of some of our supporters is astounding at times. You dont think 11 games in, and a 3rd of the league season gone, is enough time to tell you something is not working? If there had been a glimmer of something working in that time I could understand. But the performances have been e, pure and simple.

Quote ="Dirty Pretty Thing"No, the players have not adapted to the tactics asked of them yet. There is a difference. It is too soon to say whether they can play to the tactics yet. The problem lies in the fact that thje pre season for the full squad amounted to 15 days meaning they are still picking up on the tactics as the season is in progress. www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-news/spor ... CC-chances'" The mindset of some of our supporters is astounding at times. You dont think 11 games in, and a 3rd of the league season gone, is enough time to tell you something is not working? If there had been a glimmer of something working in that time I could understand. But the performances have been e, pure and simple.

Were you saying all this before the St Helens cup game?

Pre 2003 this would be an ordinary season.

Think we're expecting too much now!

How many of those games has Burrow missed? You'd think he'd be a pretty big part of what they club are trying to do so thats not going to help.

There have been glimmers but we've not managed to put it together for a full game yet. People are over-reacting because of the 2 defeats over Easter.

Forgive me for putting my faith in the players and staff who have done it before rather than listening to the doom mongers on here.

Agree re. squad and this season's performances which so far have been a good first half against Wigan, perhaps a good first half against Celtic if we're being generous and a few fits and starts elsewhere. I do think they've taken a turn for the worse in the last few games though and, most worryingly, failings don't seem to be being addressed. I think there's been real shortcomings in performances and tactics, discipline, errors, kicking and as these are not being addressed I suggest that's a shortcoming in training/coaching. Separate from that is the shortcomings in the squad such as no cover for props and arguably too many inexperienced players in the top squad.