EU has said they would have to apply in the usual way and accept the Euro. Their economy would collapse whilst negotiating entry in England played hardball (border controls, ceased to allow them to use the pound, transhipment charges introduced, stopped Scots immigrating). If they reached EU status (and the EU still existed) they would be a small peripheral economy tied into a too strong currency that would turn them into a Greece. Madness.

It does? Can I borrow that time machine?

How'd you work that out? Look back between 2-6 years. And oil has just crashed again.

Maybe not, but the investors I met at the Northern Powerhouse event in Manchester a few weeks back were more than confident in the UK economy. A representative of several Chinese billionaires was telling me their analysts forecast around a 10% drop following article 50, followed by recovery of at least 20% over the next 2-3 years. His clients are keen to invest now, take the 10% hit and still secure a 10% increase on their investment over a 3-5 year period.

We are a big, strong economy. The rest of the world sees that, even if some of our own don't.

You're a 'glass half empty' kinda guy, ain'tcha?

Fuel at record high prices? It's got a long way to go yet. Wasn't it pushing £1.40 a litre only a few years ago?

Dont go for the half empty glass analagy.

I think that many many people were/are so brassed of with the crap that we've had following the banking crash that, they would have voted for anything different.
Add to that, peoples concerns over mass immigration and the two clowns (Cameron and Osbourne) that fronted up the remain campaign and I can understand the narrow win for "leave" but, it was a vote for the unknown and even now, NOBODY can paint a credible improvement for life outside the EU.
Regardless of how things pan out, we will necessarily make trade, travel, free movement (mute point) more difficult than it has been for the last 40 years and this is being done on a maybe and without certainty.
If everyone's life was a misery pre the referendum, it would be more understandable but, I dont see that.
What I witnessed was Mr Farage, stoking up hatred towards European Immigrants (ironic as he is married to one) and promises to save us £350 million a week, which was a lie from the start.
Joe public doesn't see what happens a step further down the line, where the currency "correction" has caused ALL imported goods to rise by approx 15%, something which is still working its way through to the retail sector.
This is not glass half full, it's fact.

Therefore, please tell me again (and I read what you say about Chinese investors) where the plus points are to being "out".

The whole S.N.P. thing intrigues me.

The Tory Grandee's must be in a bit of a pickle right now.

On the one hand, if they gave Jimmy Crankie her vote & Scotland managed to release themselves from the Union, the "Labour Party" probably won't get in for at least another ten years.

On the other hand, if they fail again, their popularity would undoubtedly wain, as they have no power in Westminster. So the Scotch will turn back to "Labour"

Interesting times.

Indeed and if you add into the equation that Northern Ireland is a strong possibility in also wanting to leave "the Union", Mr Cameron will have plenty to answer for.
The situation in Ireland is perilous.
If the North stays in the United Kingdom, the border controls will be a nightmare, worse now than they were "back in the day" (although that could create a huge boom for "tax free" trades on the black market.
However, Sinn Fein's mouth must be watering at the prospect of a United Ireland.
Ironic that Cameron, a staunch Unionist, has given them the opportunity.

They can; places in the schools you want your kids to go to, places in hospitals, places in GP's, government housing under less strain, jobs and work not being undercut, laws made in Briton by elected people........ I recognise that's not the financial figures you were angling for but for some thats what they want.

Maybe you can paint the credible improvement for staying in the EU.

Dangerous territory there.

First of all, are those school places down to immigration or, under investment in our public services ?
Social housing is in chaos due to Thatcher selling off council houses to buy votes and not replacing them.

Regarding employment, unemployment has been falling steadily for the last 5/6 years and is just about at it's lowest rate (in percentage terms) since the 70's.

British laws are made by the UK parliament and if we want to trade with the EU, our products and services will still have to comply with EU legislation.

IF, what we are told about EU migrants having a positive net effect on the economy is correct, then, it's investment that is missing and after 7 years of austerity cuts( brought on by the banking crash), it's no wonder there is mounting pressure on public services.

You sound like you may have been reading the Daily Mail, which does have a particular take on who is to blame ??

Do you think that people coming to the UK from the EU are here to work or, do you think they are all on benefits.
I tend to go with the former and the jobs market is certainly more buoyant than the early 80's, when I was looking for my first job on £25 a week.

I think there is one constant here Wrenny, you will hear/see what you want to hear/see without providing the flip side.

I've given you options that some may have been swayed to vote out.

Do you accept it was a fair referendum, clear in/out options and that the majority of voters took the option to vote out? If you accept that I suspect there is a hope that we can move to step 2.

Maybe you can paint the credible improvement for staying in the EU.

Whats £25 got to do with it. How much was a washing machine in them days?

The vote to leave the EU for many was nothing to do with the EU, nothing to do with racism or xenophobia, it was a protest against years of incompetent UK government. If the vote to leave the EU has done one thing, it's exposed what a bunch of clowns we have had in charge and have had waiting in the wings to take over. We've been told for years that EU migrants are good for the economy. We've seen enough graphs and charts to last a lifetime. But where is the money? Where is the investment back into communities? Why are sports facilities closing down? Why are libraries closing down? Why are local services being cut? Why are once bustling high streets like ghost towns with more shops empty than occupied? Why does it take 2 weeks to get a doctors appointment? Why can't parents get their kids into their local schools? Why is there a healthcare crisis?

If there is mounting pressure on public services, and these public services are getting cut year on year, is it a good idea to keep adding to the number of people requiring these public services?

But the government has said repeatedly immigration will not go down.There will be no deal with INDIA unless they can get more people into the Uk they have said that all along. The same will be true of other countries we try to do deals with.

We may be able to control where the immigrants come from but we will not be able to control immigration as it will be the price for any trade deals.

I agree with you and my belief is that without the "banking crisis", there wouldn't have been a "protest" and it is also my belief that many of the problems with schools, NHS etc are down to austerity cuts and not due to "immigrants".

The sacrifice of free movement (in both directions) and distancing ourselves from our closest neighbours and trade zone is a huge price to pay for a few incompetent bankers.

As for "adding to the numbers", I believe that we will to some extent, we will swap EU immigrants for Asian immigrants (an area that is restricted but, still accounts fro the second largest chunk of immigration).

Regarding bustling high streets, this is an area where many local authorities all seem to make the same mistake.
On line shopping is on the increase but, we still keep opening new shopping complexes, which in the short term attract new visitors and increase the number of shoppers but, in the long term, they destroy the traditional town/city centres.
Wakefield is a prime example of this.
Trinity Walk is ok but, it's presence has kille the rest of the city centre, to the point where we are now going to have an indoor market where the Ridings complex was

Eire may leave the EU. They are more economically aligned with UK than EU.

We import cheap labour who, on average, don't pay anywhere near enough taxes to cover their share of public services costs, hence the decline in the latter despite the ever increasing tax burden (all taxes but income tax). It's a vicious circle. The sooner we decide we can do without coffee shops and the like the sooner economic sanity will return. Looks like the business rates hike could be a trigger for economic disaster - thousands of shops, pubs, restaurants and SME could close (some estimates at 1 in 5!) and with it a potential loss of employment on an epic scale.

I think that you may be having a laugh.

They have prospered big time with help from some hefty EU grants so, I really dont see that happening.
Far more likely that "the North" that voted "remain" may wish to go with a United Ireland and leave the British Union and although that option may make economic sense (in terms of allowing open borders), it could also re open the conflict, that so many people worked so hard to end, including the much maligned Tony Blair.
One thing that doesn't really fit over there is "hard" borders, which they would have to have once "we" leave.

Let me get this right, many people voted to leave the E.U. simply to give the government of the day a bloody nose?

Nothing is going to change anytime soon, the clowns you refer to are still in power, the opposition clowns are still in opposition. The public services will continue to be squeezed & migrants will still flood into the country.

This Tory government can't even manage a simple budget, how the hell are they going to negotiate a decent exit settlement?

You don't really think the 17 million plus were UKIP voting xenophobic racists do you? Bless.

You won't believe this but some people couldn't give a monkeys whether we are in or out of the EU. They'll adapt just like they have done for the last 8 years.

Had we have all voted to remain, would the old double act of Cameron and Osborne been lauded as geniuses? Would it have been business as usual, I'm alright Jack, no questions asked?

Where did I say all? I thought I'd said "many" err, the same as you - Bless.



Of course it would, but what you fail to grasp is that, it still is.

The country is heading for another long period of Tory rule, only this time there will be no one around to stop them.

So well done all those who profess to being socialists & voted to leave - great move.

It's revealed the sorry state of UK politics all round. The knife was stuck into the Conservatives, unfortunately there's no one capable of twisting it. Corbyn just rants on in his echo chamber, the Lib Dems are as useless as ever and nobody else can be taken seriously enough to do anything but get out of bed on a morning.

Indeed - that was very much an act of kicking oneself in the wasn't it?

On the issue of public services - it's alarming to see how effectively the Tories and UKIP have convinced people to believe that it's due to immigration; when as any fule kno, it's due to years of swingeing, ideological cuts, rebranded as 'austerity.' Schools, the NHS, social care, libraries, recreation - all have had their budgets slashed to bits by the Tories, and great swathes of the increasingly gullible public have been taken in by the alternative facts that have been used to justify those cuts - with a lot of help from the media oligarchs who own 50% of the British press; and the BBC, who are now so scared/dominated by Tory flunkies, that they shamelessly avoid reporting things that are critical of the government, whilst either ignoring Corbyn altogether, or rubbishing him at every opportunity.

UK politics has reached rock bottom - and just at that point, we're going through one of the most economically and socially impactful political processes in a generation. Scary - and depressing.

Amen to that !

What was it the Dadaists said? For something new to be created, first everything must be destroyed.

Summed up perfectly

Spoken like a true daily mail reader! Immigrants who are willing to come over here and do the jobs that English white caucasions won't do are more of a tax burden than the English white caucasions who don't want to work and would rather claim benefits.

That's gold, even for you Dally. The gift that keeps on giving.

Regards

King James

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... revious/v1 Do you accept that the ?? 3 million plus EU migrants have contributed to the significant increase in the population and this is a contributing note contributing factor to stretched NHS, schools, doctors etc

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... revious/v1 Do you accept that the ?? 3 million plus EU migrants have contributed to the significant increase in the population and this is a contributing note contributing factor to stretched NHS, schools, doctors etc