Utter rubbish. Don't make things up.


Which is exactly the opposite of what she (and other Tories) said today.


It's quite simple. We allow people who are needed to move here. We look at essential jobs gaps, assess whether they can be filled within the UK and if not, offer them out on a points-based system. Plenty of other countries have robust immigration policies like this in place, yet for some odd reason it's a problem when we suggest it for the UK.

We don't let anyone who thinks the UK looks like a cushty place to move, settle here - which is what is basically happening right now and simply cannot continue. A basic grasp of global geopolitical and climate events will explain why.

The rich will always move where they like, because they are rich. That's just how it is, and how it has always been. But they're not really the issue.

I usually think that, whether I agree or disagree with your posts, you usually put forward well reasoned comments.
However, the whole immigration issue is just bloody toxic.

Personally, as long as people wanting to come to the UK are fundamentally decent people, who are happy to work (reasonably) hard and make a contribution to our society, there shouldn't be a "points" system.

It's a little like chucking people on the scrap heap because they dont have 8 GCSE's and a couple of A levels.
We should be looking beyond bits of paper and certificates.

Also, you rubbish the point about a particular section of the electorate voting Brexit, in order to try and improve the chances of increasing immigration from elsewhere, really ?? Sorry but, on this issue you are just wrong.

How do you test if they are 'fundamentally decent people'? You can't. It's a ridiculous suggestion. So you rely on other measures.

Question: how much is too much? Net migration for the last 10 years has been *roughly* 270k per annum. Last year 612,000 people migrated to the UK and 385,000 people emigrated, a net migration figure of 226,000. How long do you can that continue? I have NEVER heard an advocate of open immigration answer.

The fact is, if we open the doors too much, we will be overwhelmed. Millions want to come here. Many millions. We are creaking at the seams as it is in terms of infrastructure and public services, without even considering our increasing elderly population and the vastly higher birth rates of most immigrants. We are a small island with limited land and resources. How many more towns, roads, etc are we prepared to build?

Immigration is only toxic if you make it so - which is what the left do without fail if anyone questions immigration. For me it's a numbers game: if you don't control the numbers, the numbers get out of hand. You can't play the 'cosy progressive' game forever at this - the numbers don't stack up. At some point the brakes MUST come on and that point isn't too far off. Control it; slow it down.

I sometimes think the left's obsession with the wonders of mass immigration is mainly because the right oppose it. It makes so little sense they're either vastly stupid or so ideologically driven they can't see sense.

I've said it many times and it was repeated on QT tonight: how can you plan for housing and public services (or indeed, anything) if you can't control how many people are about to move in?


So you think non-EU immigrants voted Brexit to reduce EU immigration so non-EU immigration could increase? Just saying I'm wrong doesn't make it so. Prove to me that a significant number voted tactically in this way. Not just hearsay or some statistically irrelevant percentage: show me solid evidence.

I'll just leave this here

The NHS is incredibly efficient but underfunded, please evidence the so called waste and abuse.

Only the richest 5% (earning more than £80,000) will pay slightly more tax under Labour, and corporations whose tax will go to 26% which is very reasonable and will still be taxed at a lower rate than France and Germany, when Labour reverse some of their tax cuts.

Quote ="Cronus"Utter rubbish. Don't make things up.'" Don't you remember Priti Patel's pre-referendum message to “save our curry houses”? https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politic ... 1.html?amp Then 3 years later, the anger at the lie. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... t-industry

Quote ="Cronus"Utter rubbish. Don't make things up.'" Don't you remember Priti Patel's pre-referendum message to “save our curry houses”? https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politic ... 1.html?amp Then 3 years later, the anger at the lie. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... t-industry

Amazing you accuse other people of being stupid yet you can't understand the link between A and B here.

The immigration stuff is a desperate attempt to energise the Tory base of racists and xenophobes - and it appears to be having some effect.

Priti Patel's announcement was much ado about nothing - but it had enough anti-immigrant sentiment to draw out those people for whom it is a massive issue; and despite that, as ever, the issues facing the UK are everything to do with swingeing cuts to public services, and nothing at all to do with immigrants, who any fule kno, make a net contribution to the economy and are more likely to work in the NHS, than use it.

We need immigration - not least to counter the twin phenomenon of ageing population and falling birth rates, and I can't wait to see the reaction of the racist gammon when they see that in a post-Brexit, swashbuckling free trade world, those countries we want free trade deals with will insist that visas are part of the package; so whilst EU migration may reduce, there'll be lots more black and brown people, which will really boil their pi$$.

Yeah, Farage has always been a Marxist.
He and his friends certainly helped make immigration toxic though.

It's interesting that we have a different take on this, probably due to our political differences, although I'm not 100% certain.
I do actually agree that there has to be some control on free movement, which has only become a major factor since the inclusion of some of the old Eastern Bolc Nations, whose economies are significantly weaker than those countries that have been members of the EU for30+ years and although the "freedom of movement" has been a fundamental pillar of membership of the EU, the disparity in wealth between the older member nations and some of the more recent additions needed to be handled differently.
Of course, over time, the gap in wealth will reduce and the clamour to come to the UK, Germany, France will stagnate and then reverse.

The attempted clamp down on controlled immigration hasn't worked and we now have more people arriving from outside the EU than from within it so and this on it's own is significantly higher than the governments "new" target for controlled immigration, which would suggest that a long line of home secretaries have either been incompetent or just wishful thinkers.

You are right to point towards creaking public services. However, you are wrong to blame this on EU immigration.
We've had 10+ years of austerity, cutting every public service to the bone and I suggest that THIS is the real reason for your creaking public services but, of course, the narrative of blaming someone else, especially immigrants, is rather more palatable than admitting that austerity cut have largely been to blame for most of the difficulties.

As for some of the ethnic groups voting Brexit to try and help improve the chances of their families coming over from Asia, I dont know if these figures exist. However, as you are aware, I'm pretty keen to absorb as much information as possible on the Brexit issue and I'm happy to put this forward as being correct.

If I'm wrong on this, I will happily hold my hands up and admit it but, I dont believe this will be necessary

That's an interesting one.

A genuine picture from the Slovenian border during the crisis of 2015 - shortly after Angela Merkel announced she would open Germany's borders.

In the words of [url=https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2016/jun/22/jeff-mitchells-best-shot-the-column-of-marching-refugees-used-in-ukips-brexit-campaign[uJeff Mitchell[/u[/url, the photographer who took this shot, the Slovenians were utterly unprepared and it was literally a flood; thousands upon thousands arriving on train after train..."it was endless"..."a conveyor belt".

He tells us it was mainly Syrians, but many Afghans, Turks and others, almost without exception young men, almost all heading for Germany. No checks, no borders.

That's also what Farage tells us. His attack is aimed directly at the EU for failing to manage this crisis; for Merkel inviting this influx. There is nothing about the poster and the issue which is inaccurate or untrue.

It was crude, it was crass - the image is of course inflammatory, but it's a genuine image from the actual crisis - but the problem is (to borrow a line) [iwe can't handle the truth[/i. Our politicians, media and left-wing jumped on it in a hostile attack, an opportunity to cry outrage and attack Farage (I'm not particularly a fan, BTW) - and it became even more a toxic issue. Never mind that he showed us the true situation, that doesn't matter, it was too blunt for our delicate sheltered Western minds.

I dare say some snowflakes will find my comments above outrageous because "racism though".

Quote ="King Street Cat"Don't you remember Priti Patel's pre-referendum message to “save our curry houses”? https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politic ... 1.html?amp Then 3 years later, the anger at the lie. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... t-industry'" Might be my age but I don't remember it. That tells me what a huge part of the campaign it must have been. I do recall reports of an urgent shortage of 'curry' chefs, which was clearly jumped upon. It's a fair point: EU workers can walk in while non-EU often jump through hoops. Neither should be able to walk in; both should be subject to checks and controls. Anyway, that doesn't prove a statistically significant number voted [ifor that reason[/i.

Quote ="King Street Cat"Don't you remember Priti Patel's pre-referendum message to “save our curry houses”? https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politic ... 1.html?amp Then 3 years later, the anger at the lie. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... t-industry'" Might be my age but I don't remember it. That tells me what a huge part of the campaign it must have been. I do recall reports of an urgent shortage of 'curry' chefs, which was clearly jumped upon. It's a fair point: EU workers can walk in while non-EU often jump through hoops. Neither should be able to walk in; both should be subject to checks and controls. Anyway, that doesn't prove a statistically significant number voted [ifor that reason[/i.

Not at all. Despite being a purposely inflammatory poster from knock-off Nige, if you take a closer look, you can't help but notice there is a distinct lack of women and kids. This may be as it was, it may also be creative cropping.

You can't creatively crop that which is not there. Men, young men, cross borders, get settled and then import their families, left wing propoganda will never change the facts.

On abuse - there are 15m missed appointments with GP practises if we accept each cost £30 that is £450m is a nurse costs £30k that the equivalent of 15,000 nurses - that would be quite useful now. 8m hospital out patient appointments were also missed - that's another 1bn. Anyone who thinks an organisation the size of the NHS isn't wasteful is delusional - even it were 95% efficient that would be a saving of £6bn and we all know its nowhere near 95%. That is before we discussed clinical negligence claims which currently sits at £1.5bn, the failed IT project to integrate patient records cost a further £10bn - do want further information?

For routine surgery e.g. cataracts, hernias etc surely private insurance would be a better and cheaper option. The workforce has already been asked to pay in extra into a flawed pension scheme how much more do you want to take?

Interesting day - yet another Labour flight of fantasy. You know when John McDonald is telling lies - he opens his mouth. When asked if the nationalising program he announced a couple of months ago was it he said say yes - now this, he didn't even have the guts to speak with BT first. Then Justine on R4 this morning asked him it this was finally it he said yes within two minutes he said they would also nationalise the broadband operations of Sky, Talk Talk etc. You cannot believe a word he says.

As for the policy - complete and utter madness and not deliverable - the 20bn is understated by 5 and there is likely 600 businesses that would be go to the wall. Labour wants that to happen being so anti-business. Happy days for the Tories - Labour's credibility takes yet another pounding

Take your pick:
[url=https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB814GB814&biw=1366&bih=625&tbm=isch&sxsrf=ACYBGNQ_YIzVC3Tn7BTpoiB14U38R9DMBA%3A1573824852587&sa=1&ei=VKnOXeq2I7iHjLsPoe2_sAI&q=refugees+slovenia+2015&oq=refugees+slovenia+2015&gs_l=img.3...256873.264453..264766...2.0..0.213.1528.24j0j1......0....1..gws-wiz-img.....10..35i39j0j0i30j0i67j35i362i39j0i8i30j0i24.rVLremuVBjw&ved=0ahUKEwjqsJu6quzlAhW4A2MBHaH2DyYQ4dUDCAc&uact=5Slovenia[/url
[url=https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB814GB814&biw=1366&bih=625&tbm=isch&sxsrf=ACYBGNSNLgVepPRCU3R_12Nq_bRm7havEg%3A1573825199518&sa=1&ei=r6rOXZaqH4i5gwfe5KnADw&q=refugees+hungary+2015&oq=refugees+hungary+2015&gs_l=img.3...703.703..1227...0.0..0.50.50.1......0....1..gws-wiz-img.WIWOQhkUeT4&ved=0ahUKEwjWvdLfq-zlAhWI3OAKHV5yCvgQ4dUDCAc&uact=5Hungary[/url
[url=https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB814GB814&biw=1366&bih=625&tbm=isch&sxsrf=ACYBGNSGItDSqXpWHyqEua9rrr7MHozHmA%3A1573825347633&sa=1&ei=Q6vOXZu0JoqjUMn1ksgC&q=refugees+austria+2015&oq=refugees+austria+2015&gs_l=img.3..0i8i30.51440.53592..54000...0.0..0.119.521.6j2......0....1..gws-wiz-img.......0i8i7i30.gS7eAJmC45k&ved=0ahUKEwjb4aKmrOzlAhWKERQKHcm6BCkQ4dUDCAc&uact=5Austria[/url
[url=https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB814GB814&biw=1366&bih=625&tbm=isch&sxsrf=ACYBGNTc_3iR7WqGxyRv2bIK6LfqGXIp9Q%3A1573825402702&sa=1&ei=eqvOXeC-KteHhbIP__io2AM&q=refugees+croatia+2015&oq=refugees+croatia+2015&gs_l=img.3...28187.32839..33050...5.0..0.116.728.12j1......0....1..gws-wiz-img.tbo965SBotE&ved=0ahUKEwjg48PArOzlAhXXQ0EAHX88CjsQ4dUDCAc&uact=5Croatia[/url
[url=https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB814GB814&biw=1366&bih=625&tbm=isch&sxsrf=ACYBGNTwRLnkcQkNc23ihrEcrKDIerj2Pw%3A1573825527654&sa=1&ei=96vOXaXGJ8fvgAaXmLC4BQ&q=refugees+macedonia+2015&oq=refugees+macedonia+2015&gs_l=img.3...57387.60874..61015...3.0..0.177.678.10j1......0....1..gws-wiz-img.8qYYVJIkT7M&ved=0ahUKEwjlnY78rOzlAhXHN8AKHRcMDFcQ4dUDCAc&uact=5Macedonia[/url

I'm not blind to the fact many of these are genuine refugees and yes the EU should help resettle their share of those in dire need. But these was no managed refugee resettlement programme; this was Merkel inviting an influx of over a million into Europe. All genuine refugees? Far from it.

This is based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever - unless you care to furnish us with examples of how inserting a profit margin and the hefty additional administrative burden of insurance coverage ever produces cheaper outputs. (And while we're here let's not pretend the private sector is a bastion of efficiency).

In any event, the country is totally wed to the NHS form of socialism and very far right views like yours are not in any way popular, or likely to be enacted - even by the Tory party in its current extreme form. They would like it to be funded properly though.

WRONG.
[urlhttps://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/31/britain-take-back-control-immigration-eu-directive-brexit[/url
That Poster says "WE MUST BREAK FREE OF THE EU AND TAKE BACK CONTROL OF OUR BORDERS"
It was a lie.
Here's another time the lie was used.....


I get it. You want out and fair enough, but do not, for one second think that the referendum result wasn't influenced by this blatant lie. Same with the Bus.......there's a great number of latent racists who will deny they are racist, but the reality is, if they could blame johnny foreigner for their woes then they will. The Queues experienced by the 60+ year olds who voted leave, when visiting their doctors are the result of tory austerity. The 0% return they get on their savings isn't caused by anything else other than the tories bailing out their mates in the banks....but you carry on with your incorrect stance that both sides lied and therefore it's OK.
We may never know what would happen with a second vote, but one indicator is Farrages Hilarious Facebook poll where he tried to prove that Leave would win again.....it was 91% remain by the time he took it down!

It is not incorrect to suggest both sides lied - you know as well as everyone both sides lied - you need to take your blinkers off.

It was Labour who bailed out the bankers not the Tories - the result was a country in heavy debt when the Tories got into power and something had to be done. Perhaps you thought it should be business as usual?

So I see you quickly ignore the abuse and inefficiency points - your argument destroyed



So a cataract surgery is pretty cheap <£1,000 plenty of people either insure or just pay because the NHS will not put you on a list for surgery until you cannot see. So you can't drive, your propensity for falling over increases and your quality of life decreases significantly. Would you pay over the odds in those circumstances - of course you would. Nobody said the private sector is more efficient - only you suggested they weren't. This is about quality of life - you have tooth ache, you don't care what it costs to sort it out. This is where private health care really works and the NHS doesn't

We come back to the point of what are you expecting from the NHS. How much do you spend - if the NHS has 100k of vacancies it must have a huge surplus of monies or it doesn't have the funds to employ them? The ideal that all these jobs are taken up by Locoms or agency workers doesn't ring true - because if that were the case then the performance is not a staffing issue.

Despite what you suggest, as far as not telling the truth, Boris remains way, way, way in front in this respect.
Following on from the Brexit referendum, he and his "team" has plumbed new depths in political campaigning.

If seems like anything goes, without fear of reprimand or consequence.

As your Tory friends insist, nobody should be judged until we see the manifestos

That's a lovely rant, but bears zero relevance to the post I made, which focused on the background of the picture YOU posted - i.e. the mass influx of well over a million immigrants and refugees through the Balkans, prompted by weak EU leadership and Angela Merkel. The poster specifically targets the EU, as did the speech Farage gave at the time. It's a genuine picture of a real crisis - but in true blinkered left-wing style, you ignore the inconvenient truth and go on the attack.

Got to be said though, if you think immigration (EU and non-EU) isn't putting a degree of strain on public services, housing, etc, you're a blithering idiot. You simply cannot bring in a million people net every 3-4 years without some impact. And that's without considering the societal and cultural frictions. I bet you think that doesn't exist either.

BTW, as Sal says, Labour bailed out the banks.

Dont forget Golum Brown sold our gold at a record low, I wish I was thick enough to believe in Labour, the idealism is laudable, but it is not practical. There will always be those that have, and those whom that have not, maybe it's time Chardonnay from the Estate crosed her legs and got a job, but no, the tax payer bails her out.

Labour screwed our country, do I trust Boris, no, do I trust Cringebin more, hell no. It's like pulling a card on 16 against a 7, you want a 5, the dealer will get 4 and a picture.

What the idiot left fail to realise is that only succesful people pay their way, you dont pay tax on benefits.

Not compared to McDonald he doesn't - and their tactics are no different to Labour - workers rights, environmental protection, NHS spiralling US drug costs, no further nationalisation etc.

All labour are doing are rolling out a host of completely unachievable policies its lack credibility - 4 day week, turn up for work when you feel like it, no controls on immigration, £15/hr at McDonalds etc Google/Apple & Facebook are going to fund everything Labour wants to do - really, do Labour think these corporations are as stupid as they are and they will simply lie down and go come on John tickle my tummy - it isn't credible.

Labour criticised the Tories for the time it will take to get their environmental policy to fruition yet launch two policies - equal pay for ladies and broadband both of which will take as long to implement as the Tory environmental policy