I aim to please. Mind you it ain't difficult when talking about British political figures these days!

Blair has zero credibility and Boris has about the same.
The "off" switch is appropriate for both.

Interesting article from earlier in the week. Illustrates some huge fundamental problems with the UK economy which will be exacerbated should immigration be curtailed (which it won't be): www.standard.co.uk/business/anth ... 73456.html As I understand it the lower 50% of earners get more out of the welfare state than they pay in taxes. If that is the case, despite the need for immigration spelled out in the article can we as a country afford to import low-skilled migrants to work in coffee shops, Amazon warehouses and the like?

Interesting article from earlier in the week. Illustrates some huge fundamental problems with the UK economy which will be exacerbated should immigration be curtailed (which it won't be): www.standard.co.uk/business/anth ... 73456.html As I understand it the lower 50% of earners get more out of the welfare state than they pay in taxes. If that is the case, despite the need for immigration spelled out in the article can we as a country afford to import low-skilled migrants to work in coffee shops, Amazon warehouses and the like?

My post was timely. Daily Express today leads with threat to state pension posed by 3 million low paid migrants being subsidised by taxpayers to tune of £31.5 billion a year. Surely it is unstainable to live in the new, corrupt form of socialist society where major banks are supported to make losses rather than broken up and we pay to import people to work in thousands of cofffee shops (which didn't exist 20 years ago), pick goods in warehouses for companies that pay virtually no tax here and undermine established, tax paying businesses and all the while individual citizens largely speaking get poorer. This has to stop. A revolution in thinking or actual revolution is required to sort the mess out. If Labour had a straight-talking, eloquent, firebrand of a leader the times are right for real change but instead they are a bunch of out of touch, robotic, unthinking, pussies lead by a man with the charisma of a cardboard cutout.

I stopped reading when you mentioned the Daily Express. I wouldn't believe a word written in that. They've already had to issue two front page apologies this year for inaccuracies relating to their reporting on immigration. It's a laughable rag.

So it looks like the Lords is going to push the bill back to the commons with some amendments. This could be a long drawn out process.

Insane vote which could put the positions of Brits living in EU at risk.

So, by agreeing some rights for EU residents currently living in the UK, we are putting the rights of UK citizens living in Europe at risk ?
Is any kind of sensible debate, these people would be allowed to remain where they are and not used as bargaining chips in the Brexit deal.
How much is a British citizen worth compared to an EU citizen ?

May is obviously keen not to lose any bargaining power at all. Think this is a bit simplistic really given how much the UK relies on many of the EU nationals already here.

Indeed - if the NHS and Social Care looks stretched paper thin now, imagine what it would look like without all the migrant workers.

If we made a start by getting rid of EU footballers we might end up with a stronger national team. Of course for all the "close the borders" mob, footballers aren't immigrants.

The future of trade: www.standard.co.uk/business/anth ... 80301.html What do you think? Stormy waters ahead or remoaning?

The future of trade: www.standard.co.uk/business/anth ... 80301.html What do you think? Stormy waters ahead or remoaning?

The UK will not expel people already here but government needs the flexibility to argue it will if the EU starts saying it will expel British ex-pats. Britain is on a hiding to nothing in negotiations with 27 other countries and needs to keep all its options open to get anything meaningful out of those negotiations. To look at it from a purely British perspective is as foolish as it is naïve. We could take the so called high moral ground and announce in advance that EU citizens can stay and even that we'd give them all £1m each but the other EU could still take the low moral ground and expel all Brits. Have EU countries announced they will allow British citizens to stay in their countries (if they have I apologise that I have missed that)? If not, why are you criticising the UK government for using people as "bargaining chips" and not the other EU countries? I simply cannot understand such thinking.

Sometimes, you have to do what is right and live with the consequences and far from weakening our position, an early move like this, could help us in the long run.

It's strange that these sorts of issues barely got a mention in the referendum campaign and at the time Farage just wanted to stop "them" coming.

The situation in Ireland is possibly the most difficult to solve.

Having gone from open borders and free trade, their situation could get very messy indeed and if their choice is to go with a united Ireland or a smugglers paradise, there will be some difficult choices for those in power.

At the risk of stating the blindingly obvious the whole situation looks catastrophic. All could have been resolved when Cameron asked for consessions from Brussels. They sent him back to the U.K with nothing. If he could have come back with a promise of temporary freeze on immigration brexit would have failed.
I am beginning to think the Germans are the villains in the ecc, they are sat on a mountain of cash whilst Italy and Greece are screwed. Trump is right in asking them to pay more into NATO. The German response is to pour scorn on trump.
This after the Americans and British spent a small fortune at the height of the Cold War with troops and armaments potentially defending a Russian invasion into Germany.
Not to mention the Marshall plan the Americans instigated to rebuild Germany after the Second World War .
I note the ecc are now going after le pen in France . They know full well if she wins the the game is up for the ecc. They will succeed in stopping her with the help of the current French government .
Meanwhile youth unemployment in Italy and Spain is still sky high. The Italian banks are virtually bust. Greece once again is having to be bailed out, what a complete shambles.

This is the whole issue - the EU benefits Germany and ultimately Germany alone. Their economy will take huge hit if the EU disintegrates. If we get out (note if, not when) and our funding contribution ceases the EU will need to change - because Germany won't wish to pile more funding in. It'll end up either disintegrating, fully integrating (although that would still cost Germany) or restructuring to something like the UK wanted all along.

What makes you feel so unsure?

I don't see anything looming that will change the decision.

Please enlighten me, I need cheering up (In a non-rugby sense)

Seems like the PM may be getting on with it, possibly Tuesday.

Lets see what come with it.

Dont hold your breath.
She may trigger article 50 but, the "experts" are suggesting that there is 35/40% chance of "no deal" which will do wonders for inflation.
All the experts who "did their research" and voted out (along with the rest of us) could be left paying heavily for their "fingers crossed" approach to Brexit.
Blind faith wins the day and what a joy it will be.

Scotland are likely to go for another referendum and Sinn Fein could well get their wish of a united Ireland, which just shows that the pen, indeed, is mightier than the sword (or bombs and bullets in the case of Sinn Fein).

Exciting times if you're fairly balanced and not a doom munger

Scotland can't have a second vote, no matter what Mrs Pilchard thinks

Let the Jocks go. Oil and Gas industry has collapsed. Whiskey and Golf wont keep universities and prescriptions free of charge that's for sure

Spain wont let them in the EU!

Let's call the witches bluff

Why ?

It looks like we may end up with WTO terms, which will stick 10% on everything that we buy and sell to Europe, hardly exciting.
The timing of the referendum, when half the world is trying to recover from one of the deepest recessions in history was stupid.
Regardless of whether "project fear" was over the top, we have already seen Sterling drop around 15% against the Euro and the Dollar and this round of inflation is still coming through the system - you'll notice your Toblerone has a few less triangles these days not to mention fuel at record high prices but, most peoples wages are going up by around 2% (if they are lucky).

You could have excitement by physically jumping of a cliff edge but, I dont advise jumping.

Britain 150 years ago was a world powerhouse but, we are simply not in that position.

Perhaps you could share some of the reasons for your excitement

My excitement stems from wondering what we will end up with.

Its happening so enjoy it. A bit like getting on a fast ride wondering if it will be enjoyable or not.

Its not started yet and you are dwelling on WTO.... let's get it going and see which path it takes

There has been to many lies & alternative truths on both sides. The country voted so lets get on with it.

So blind optimism then, like when you buy a lottery ticket



I view it more as rolling a dice.
We previously had a four and we are now rolling the dice hoping for a six.
We may get on or, maybe even a five but, we could also get a one, two or three.

I like a gamble normally but, there hasn't been one person yet, who has convinced me that what we will get may be better than what we as part of the EU but, you carry on getting giddy over nothing.