Anyone know the outcome?

Voted 28-10 in favour of a switch to summer.
Be interesting to see what happens at a local league level now.

NWC vote Monday

loverugbyleague.com/news_5332-su ... eague.html No formal word on what the proposals are for the existing summer structure yet.

loverugbyleague.com/news_5332-su ... eague.html No formal word on what the proposals are for the existing summer structure yet.

Cumberland League already voted to trial a summer season (Mar-Nov) from 2012.

At NWC, not a vote but clubs asked what they think. 12 summer, 13 undecided, 23 winter - rest not here. Give and take a bit there as I tried to not count NCL clubs as people were asked. Obviously some clubs not here....

More of an update from NWC:

Clubs were simply asked to express what it was likely they would do. IT WAS NOT A VOTE ON NWC SWITCHING. The NWC committee has already decided they will continue offering winter rugby to those clubs who want it.

There are NCL clubs with teams in the NWC of course so when clubs were asked the committee member tried not to read their names out (as they're deciding through other routes) but she did read a few out (Eccles for example) and hence, the results were a little confused (as were some attendees at the end!).

My numbers were:

12 summer (I tried not to count any NCL club)
13 undecided
23 winter
with at least 10 not present

the numbers read out at the end were something like:

18 summer (but that definately included some NCL clubs whose names were read out!)
13 undecided
22 winter

The split was pretty much as expected - the traditional teams (and those higher up the structure) saying winter in the main and those choosing summer being mainly newer clubs (Accrington, Bury, Chorley etc.). The North Lancs district had the most wanting a switch - I didn't record every answer but for Manchester it was 2 summer, 3 winter, one undecided. For other areas some seemed solidly winter. There were some notable exceptions to those patterns so it will be interesting to see what happens. I imagine some undecided clubs will go each way.

A few reps in the room were asking questions about the summer structure - i was pretty surprised that they hadn't already looked into the proposals!

But there you have it - we'll get a smaller NWC (3 divisions less at least I reckon), and others switching to summer. Over the next few years I think more will drift out of winter as youngsters (who must go to summer surely!) filter into the open age ranks.

Of the NCL teams with 2nd teams in the NWCL, 11 of the 12 teams had already voted to take their first teams to the summer, and as a result their NWC sides would follow. Only Ince RB had voted for winter at last week's NCL meeting and stated at tonight's meeting that they were undecided what they were going to do.

In the poll clubs were given 3 options Summer, Winter or Undecided

The NWCL Management said that they would continue to run a winter league for those clubs that wanted it.

22 clubs indicated they wanted to remain in winter.

13 (including Ince RB) said they were as yet undecided.

20 (including 11 out of 12 NCL clubs) said they wanted to move to summer.

10 clubs were absent (Mostly from Barrow).

The NCL clubs are Crosfields (Div 5), Eccles (Div 4), Leigh East (Div 1), Leigh Miners(Div 1), Oldham St.Annes (Div 1), Rochdale Mayfield (Div 4), Saddleworth Div 4), Thatto Heath (Div1), Waterhead (Div 4), Wigan St,Judes (Div 2), Wigan St,Pats (Div 2).

The Other Clubs were
Accrington Panthers (NE Lancs - Div 6)
Bury Broncos (Lancs - Div 5)
Chorley Panthers (Lancs - Div 5)
Fitton Hill (Oldham - Div 6)
Folly Lane (Swinton - Div 1)
Leyland Warriors (Lancs - Div 3)
Little Hulton (Salford - Div 6)
Newton Storm (St.Helens - Div 5)
Woolston (Warrington - Div 2)

Of the absent clubs Bank Quay Bulls (Warrington - Prem Div) had previously shown and interest in moving to summer according to Ron Girvin.

Will be interesting to see which way the undecided clubs fall but it looks like a big shake up is on the cards no matter what.

Ince RB have said that their NCL team will be going to summer desite voting No initially. Which mean it is highly likely that their NWC team will follow suit.

The NCL side of this seems to be pretty well sorted but who will provide meaningful opposition for the likes of BQ? Lots of clubs on the NWC list seem to be caught in limbo, not meeting NCL criteria nor relevant opposition to play. A long way to go on this one I think.

Worst case scenerio IMO for NWC winter leagues is we only end up with 3/4 10 team leagues.

so no Prem teams other than BQ have indicated they want to move to summer?

Nope, and not many from upper divisions at all (exclusing the NCL sides). This could be a real issue (and thankfully not one I have to deal with!)...

Upper division side, wants to progress and sees summer as the way to go. Risks quitting NWC and therefore, its place in an upper division that it took 30+ years to get. Goes to summer, discovers there hasn't been a mass switch of similar standard sides, finds the standard too low, and players go back to NWC sides in winter instead, club ends up struggling.

that said, there are 4/5 NCL 2nd sides so it may not be too bad.

Which current NCL are considering coming over to NWC/staying in the BARLA Winter conference?

I've been told that of the 10 voting no at the NCL meeting, Ince Rose Bridge was the only one from our part of the world with the others being from Yorkshire and they suggested they might now follow the rest anyway...so that suggests none going into the NWC. I also imagine that some of teh other 9 will now change their mind given the vote result.

A BARLA Conference would need them to go into it and presumably, some of the better County League sides with good facilities to also move up (Golbourne is an obvious candidate). That would strip even more sides out of the NWC I presume!

Tbh, I can't really see a BARLA Conference league taking off and certainly not more than maybe one division?

That could easily work the other way round though. Player(s) leave their NWC side to try out summer rugby, finds the standard outside NCL below what he's used to, return to NWC club and summer side that depends on parachuting players in, struggles.

I think the biggest worry for the RFL is the gulf in playing standards between the NCL clubs and the rest. The key for them to make the transition work properly is to make sure the NWC tier is taken care of.

I'm told St Judes and IRB were one of the last to say they were changing to summer. I think all NCL clubs will move en masse anyway.

The Barla NCL is an interesting concept and it will be interesting to hear what comes from Girvins meeting with the RFL on Friday(?).

I think the writing maybe on the wall for the proposed BARLA winter conf, I very much doubt there will be the teams who can tick the boxes to qualify to maintain a decent level.

Winter rugby will be regionalised leagues only by the sounds of it, and if current NCL teams want to avoid summer rugby or eventually drop out it will be to the like of NWC, Pennine etc etc.

Looking further ahead however.... one thought I've had on the whole RFL summer proposal, is that surely there will be the handful of teams that do aspire to make 'tier 2' of the Rugby League ladder, which is the carrott being dangled in front of the big sides should they wish to make/achieve the step, maybe more than handful! Those clubs with Pennies in the bank already and those who can attract good local business backing aswell as funding from here there and everywere. IMO this will slowly alienate those lower down the 'Summer conference' ladder......it is then I fear that the grass may not seem so green in the summer for the smaller clubs.

agree there are clubs giving tier two the eye but some are being a bit 'aspirational' shall we say. as for the lower clubs -it will all depend on the club. whatever happens, it cannot be less 'green' than winter for a side like us in Bury. I chatted at length with a v good Div 3 side tonight - i mentioned our summer move = £1,600 in savings in the bank (cost of floodlit training), he said they pay that and dont worry about the cost as they've grown to be used to it. so, it's always going to be 'greener' from my view as i know plenty of things £1,600 could go on.

of course...i think the NCL moving over will displace many of the 'top level' current summer clubs as I think NCL is better! but the RFL need to look at the transfering NWC clubs and support their transition as they are needed to mkae the whole thing work. for a start, they need to recognise that such are participation clubs not elite sides and the off-field standards need to reflect such

its very much an each to there own i think with preference as to when they wanna play there rugby....its a brave step.

small acorns and all that.

My view (and not of the club), is that as an amateur team in Wigan, where I am sure you will agree it is tough to get established, in terms of getting the kids down rather than goin to Pats, Judes and the like....we could provide the winter alternative....Opens allot of doors for us stayin in the winter format in my opinion....again, small acorns and all that.

nb. and when i say kids, I mean the 16,17, 18 year olds makin the step up, i appreciate the youth are movin to summer aswell.

Wigan St Pats dont have an under 18's playing Summer, Wigan St Judes do in the Gillette National Youth League.
i heard yesterday 5 lads had recently moved from Pats to Judes to play Summer rugby.
Judes now full with 30 players, i believe Ince has a big squad with 25+ players;
clearly the kids at 16,17,18 want to play summer and will vote with their feet. If you stop in winter - your youth players will drift away. No future in winter RL.

Thats because there not puttin as much meat in the meat & prayter anymore, going soft these kids

But on a serious note...My point exactly i think the like of Ourselves, Hindley, New Springs, Orrell, have to in some way compete against the like of Judes and Pats and it ain't easy as you obviously knowonly to well based on your knowledge of there respective youth set ups, and no matter whther we play summer or winter the lads are always going to want o go down to the big 3, and this will be backed up by parents.

I sure as hell don't no the answer, but as far as open age goes I think to say winter rugby has no future is discredited by the fact that there are still a majority as local level that want to stay with the winter format.

2nd string open age will remain in winter for many teams

Youth teams will be down selected to a few "big" clubs, the RFL rules allowing players to be picked from the lesser "training" clubs as and when they feel the need.

We certainly will have a larger number of "elite" clubs than we do today (albeit still a relatively small number - say three per pro club), however the manner in which they will have free access to anything below willl be the death of the lesser clubs.

Hands up any youth league in this country where it's smaller clubs coaches and volunteers are always more than happy to carry on without issue when their best players are poached or have their heads turned by the big boys.

Yes grass is green in summer for some, but decidely dusty for what will in effect be the majority (soon to becone a minority).

Still perhaps the free sprinklers will help