Released by Barrow, one that has been linked to us and one which i would have in our pack.

I’m not a big fan tbh. Yes he’s aggressive, but he gets owned by the harder props. He’s definitely never going to be SL quality in the future, so we may as well go for an older, tougher prop to see us through next year.

If I was going to go for a Barrow prop, I’d go for Matt James who, whilst not being the toughest, is one of the most skillful ball handling props in the Championship, with a great step and pace. He definitely has the potential to make the step up. Other than him, Ned Catic would add aggression to our pack, although he is likely to get sent off regularly and spend long periods banned.

It’s a real pity what has happened to Gaz Hag. He’s one of the best props we’ve had for some time.

He's only 23 though Pepe and is a pretty consistent performer, if Gannon and Haggerty go i would also see the need to bring in an experienced bulldozer as well as Bracek.

I’d sooner that we brought in two experienced bulldozers in and ripped this league up, at last. We’ve got enough of our own young players to bring through, who have more potential than Andy Bracek anyway. I really don’t see the point in signing him and I hope we don’t.

If Ben Davies signs i would agree leave him be.

He would be worthwhile signing. He really will be a star in SL imo. Wigan would be stupid to part with him.

Agreed, a season long loan would be great for us if we could somehow get it.

Only if there are no clauses in the loan which allows Wigan to call him back before the season is over.

I agree, with the Bracek comments. Likes to think he's the big man but doesn't really have the physical presence to back it up. Brett McDermott would be the Barrow one I'd go for, but he looks fairly happy where he is tbh.

I think he's an aggressive skilful prop we need. What's the score with Haggs? I'd be gutted if he left i feel give him a full off season to recover from injuries as when fully fit as mentioned he's a cracking player and best forward in this league no doubt!

Agree about James though weren't we keen when left Quins? But Dezzy got his envelopes out if course

No no no! McDermott does a job but is a yard dog cheap shot merchant like Roberts. In honesty if was P&R they'd be handy to do a job but they shouldn't be paid for what they do, in SL or with a decent ref wouldn't last 5 minutes! I respect they have their roles and give 100% but their generation has long gone!

We won't be in Super League next season. In 2012 McDermott would be back humping coal around for a living, because he will be replaced by better quality. In the meantime, he'd do a much better job than Bracek imo.

The only way it would be worthwhile bringing in Bracek, is if you think that he would be able to step up to SL level. IMO he will never be at that level, so we should persevere with our own young props, who seem to look like they will be able to cope in SL. Plus they will actually count as home grown, which will be important over the next few years.

The worrying thing for me, is that this is the type of player we have been going for. That is part of the reason why we finished in 5th place.

I'd say it's the opposite we've been looking for SL drop downs rather than top champ players and that has been our problem! Nanyn a great example of why buying championships best is better than SL outcasts... Kirk same season?

What I mean is we’ve been going for other clubs young players who can’t quite make it in SL. Someone at the club seems to think that, because they are young and promising, we’ll be able to take nearly a full squad of these players up to SL in 2012. Netherton, Coyle, Gardener, Gerrard, Pickersgill, I‘Anson and then there's all of the Dual-regs we signed on top of theat, all of which were recalled. It's time for all this cr@p to end. Only Picks imo will be worth a shot at SL, so why bother with the rest? I will admit that I know little about I‘Anson though.

If we try to build a club for SL in this league, with it’s poultry £300k cap, it will be a complete disaster. The team would be humiliated in SL and we won't even be able to hold our head up in the Champioship. I doubt we’ll even get a core of the squad from next years team. What we need is a team that can compete in the Championship next year and win it. For that we need some tough old nuts with bags of experience and skill. Let them bring our own youngsters on in a winning team, instead of getting a pasting physically every week. The good quality old heads, we did have, always seemed to be injured, because PC, in his infinite wisdom, bought them that way.

Imo Brecek will not improve us as significantly as several other players I could think of, and won’t be capable of making the step up to SL, so what’s the point?

Wouldn't really consider any of them as SL standard but Bracek still has potential. Catic is their best player, think he's out of contract too.

If you consider that Brecek is going to be SL quality, then I can understand why you, or anyone else, would want him here. I don’t think he’s even good enough for a top end Championship club and see no chance at all of him ever making a SL player.

I remember being lambasted on this forum for saying that Sam Thompson was e. Some people actually thought he was quite good.

Whilst Bracek is better than Thompson, I’m still totally puzzled as to what some people see in him.

I have to disagree Pepe! Not for this season! In 2008,09,10 you had a point but to change tact and build a championship winning sudecin 2011 would be daft! Earlier yes I agree but the year before a probable SL entry, where this season wouldn't matter for that... No way!

OK, how many of the squad, so far, do you actually think will be playing regularly and competing in SL in 2012?

Because I really can’t see too many who will be able to, and definatley not Bracek. Whether they are older or younger, most will be gone by 2012. If not, then prepare for a season locked at the bottom of SL.

What I want to see next season is a squad able to compete in the Championship. Come March, should we get the nod, we’ll have plenty of time to recruit a good team able to hold it’s own in SL.

It's a hard question to answer because realistically at the end of last year who would have made the call that Liam Finn for instance would have been so infleuntial at this level and walk away with the player of the year trophy.

I certainly wouldnt have forecast it and I do recall reading from some disgruntled Fev fans at the time of his signing.

Alot can change in a year and if one year deals get people playing for potential SL deals then its a great thing and us as fans couldnt care less about their performances form this or previous years.

Bracek is certainly a talented lad. He has been for a while now though and it generally seems to be his attitude that has let him down previously. Not just for him but a full time nevironment makes a massive difference for players stepping up and some will kick on and others will just drop back into the Championship as thiings level off.

I think we do forget but we took some average players with us or picked them up from the National Leagues and the full time environment and a good team ethic produced some good performances from them.

If we do well in the league next year then great but for me it's about getting individual players looking good and showing some promise. We dont need to dominate this league though to justify anything to other Championship fans though.

I hear Andy wanted 35k witch imo is way to much for him.

Steady away prop nothing flash never really breaks the line, Cullen would love him tho as he does the old Knees and Ellbows!!

I’m not too sure what point, in the context of this discussion, you are making?

Fev haven’t done what we have done. We have recruited too many young cast off’s from other teams, added young dual reg players and then have tried to throw in loads of our own youngsters. We did have some good, experienced players, but some of these were injured before we even signed them and spent most of this season out injured.

Fev built an experienced team and threw in a few young players with promise. That’s what I want Widnes to do. I want a tough quality pack and some quality backs. To this I want to see our own youngsters brought in. I want them to be playing in a team where they have a modicum of protection form the experienced players and learn from them in a winning environment. Barrow knocked the cr@p out of us in that last game. We were bullied. This is not a sport that tolerates any weakness, and such weakness will be exploited.





We are not full-time yet, and I’m far from convinced many of the players we have retained would make any sort of mark on SL. I’m not saying all of them would fail, but we cannot take a chance on them all. I've never seen a game were Bracek has impressed me. I'd rather spend that valuable space on the cap on a tough, old head who'll help bring on and protect our own youngsters. Gannon filled this role for so long, but he was on his own most of the time and he probably won't be here next season.



We don’t need to win to justify anything, but I would really like to see us do well next season. If we get the nod in March, every team we face will be up to smash us. We need some real muscle and experience next season to deal with that. I don’t want to go through another season like the last three and see us losing fans at the rate we are now. Having a winning team is b00dy important to me. In fact, that is what it is all about, surely?

A 1 year deal for Bracek with a final chance to prove himself wouldnt be a bad move IMO, like the rest of the lads he either wants it or he's resigned to playing in the championship for the rest of his career with teams like Leigh.

Went to watch the 20's super league final today vm..davies was immense,if we can prise him away from the pies a gr8 gr8 signing but somehow a loan would be the best we can hope for imo,they know this lad is a talent,look at farrell how he kicked on after his spell with us.

I'd sign Catic in a shot. Aggressive, incredibly quick for a big man, puts opponents off their game. All the things you want in a forward (who can play centre).

I totally agree, but I'm not even sure you can go as far as to say 'young and promising'. Its almost as if we'll take any young(ish) player as long as they've recently been at SL club academy. You would have thought we'd have learned by now that not all young players will turn out to be great ones. Maybe it should be a case of [ibetter the devil you know[/i and concentrate on our own youngsters - because a lot of the time it seems we're signing players that we don't know a great deal about.

You look at the Widnes recruitment over the past few years and you just can't see where we are going. We're picking up young players, but sometimes its almost as if we're picking them up purely because they're young - not because they have the potential to play in SL. Were the likes of Sam Thompson, Chris Gerrard, Kirk Netherton, Thomas Coyle or the dual reg players ever realistically going to be SL players for us in 2012? If these players can't stand out at Championship level, how on earth would they cope in SL? At least the 2001 squad had the boast that they won the last 15 games in a row and also won the GF. Back then, we had some real quality players for the division that we were in. I think the problem we've had recently is that we've had a lot of average players (regardless of age) and not enough quality.

I think Pepe is right - trying build a squad for SL whilst we're in the Championship just hasn't worked. May as well try and sign good players for our division now and negotiate with different players for 2012 when/if we get the nod for SL. If anyone we have already stands out next year then obviously they should be given a shot at SL, but I don't think many of them have done themselves any favours over the past 12/24 months.