We have a European League, its called the European Superleague and it was founded with the intention of being a European competition, not a Yorkshire & Lancashire one.

No expansion in France? So a small semi-pro side being watched by a thousand people growing to a professional side watched by 7-8,000 is not expanding the game in France? The game in France was dying pre-Catalans, the club have given the French game a shot in the arm and has given young French players something to aspire to.

Let me ask you a question, under what circumstances could a French expansion side, hell any expansion side, be considered a success in your eyes? Apparently an 8,000 average and an 18,000 crowd at an on the road game in another country isn't enough, so what's success in your eyes, at what point would you say 'they have been successful?'. A 15,000 average? A twenty thousand capacity stadium? A team entirely composed of French players? Two thousand away fans at every game? The French international team becoming as strong as England in the space of a few years?

It seems that the expectations that you place upon expansion sides are several orders of magnitude higher than those that you place on heartlands sides. Apparently it's okay for Halifax and Salford to average 4,000 in Superleague or to take ten years to complete construction of a stand, but how dare those dodgy French types not manage to transform into the equivalent of Real Madrid overnight.

FYI talking about grass roots expansion, XIII Catalan were formed in 1935, just how long would you want them to wait before they got a chance at Superleague?

No they were not they were formed with the sole reason to get into super league.

Their effect on the Widnes Vikings attendances is so negligible it makes any point you are trying to make…er…well…pointless.

The people of Chester’s interest in the Wrexham Crusaders has so badly effected their interest in the Widnes Vikings that that the Range Rover dealer James Edwards of Chester has decided to sponsor us.

[urlhttp://www.widnesvikings.co.uk/article.php?id=998[/url

France I have always been absolutely fine with. I'm arguing that letting our traditional clubs fall flat on their backside but bailing out pet projects will leave us significantly worse and is absurd. If you want to expand the game, fine, but don't do it at anyone's expense.

if you think 12 english 1 welsh & a french team make a european league then fair enough.as for why it was set up-we know why is was set up & 15years later it really has'nt changed has it?as you say the cats are getting good gates-so what-widnes will get good gates when they get there chance & the differance being the money they get off the RFL will go back into the british game which is how it should be.
by the way the game in france has'nt changed one way or the other in 70years & it wont change until people invest lots of money in it so this idea that one french team is going to help the national game is rubbish,they will continue to get well beat until there is 3/4 french team filled with french players.

i'll sum my idea of expansion up in three words-south wales scorpions.

I guess you backed the Crusaders too, until they became more successful than your club?

go on, enlighten us. Define success, a club thrown in to the deep end ran by a bloke hoping to make a quick buck willing to give up at the first chance having to relocate hours away losing the small core of support it has musterd up getting by on a load of holiday makers, or a club steeped in history winners of the world club championship heading a whole host of over honours.

no not the celtic crusaders i did'nt & you know why,because you've been told a hundred times.& no they've never been more successful than my club leigh.

but i do back the wrexham crusaders &,i wish them all the best & i've said that from day one.i just hope they start to use more british players quite soon.

I actually can't remember why you specifically don't/didn't like Celtic Crusaders, I've heard a thousand different reasons from different people like you say. But they also started life in the lowest division and worked their way up. Yes they had an exemption on imports, but there weren't any Welsh players of required standard available at the time, so there wasn't any other option. The only reason Scorpions now have players and fans and are able to exist and be competitive is because of the development work done by Celtic Crusaders. And to be honest, Celtic Crusaders' first season was similar in a lot of ways to the Scorpions', it was only later that things started to fall away a bit and they became too ambitious without doing the necessary groundwork first. I'm glad that you are backing the new Crusaders though, with proper administration there's no reason why it can't be a success, and that goes for any club expansion or traditional in my eyes.

And I didn't mean more successful in terms of history and trophies won, just that they got to a level where they could consistently compete with and challenge your club. I've found a lot of fans who are 100% behind expansion until it looks like it may have an impact on their club, in which case the tide quickly turns.

I have no problem with South Wales Scorpions, nor any real issues with the Crusaders. However I still feel that you are an obsessed t!t who looks down his nose at anyone and everyone outside SL.

He does tend to make a complete fool of himself going off on just about anyone from the lower leagues. Over aggressive, totally uncalled for and had the gall to call me too biased to be a moderator.

But Nozzy mate can you not get around the swear filter on this board. We have a very decent cameraderie on here and we don't need to lose that with bad language, be creative instead.

That goes for everyone.

anyone exempt from the salary cap would be able to compete, why oh why do we keep having to go over this, just accept that the process was all wrong and be done with it.

Not forgetting breaking the laws of the land and operating at a different salary cap level , and as for them being the Celtic Crusaders , they no longer exist , the 2 welsh clubs we now have are totally new ventures

Now the problem comes here from how it is done , in Australia SKY fund melbourne , everybody knows they do and everybody knows the reason why , for some reason over here the RFL are scared of telling the truth , we need expansion , it has to be payed for , but the RFL prefer to treat us like idiots ' pretending ' that clubs are operating within the same rules as all the other clubs , they are dishonorable and therefore in my opinion are not fit to run our sport

the bit in Bold says it all really.

Like London, Crusaders have NEVER been promoted to SL. they have just been placed there to sell Sky dishes!

Their Business plan will not see past 2012, which confirms the mockery of these clubs being in SL !