No wonder were defensive because i haven`t seen that much praise from Widnes/fax fans just the usual tripe trotted out,big headed chairman,brown envelopes,sh*te ground blah blah..

Facts are many of yous`e don`t like it that there may be just another team now who MIGHT get a chance at SL.

"Based on what? The books atm represent SO'C spends on the club facilities etc.

Are you saying Barrow could survive on a 800k turnover but Widnes not on 950k turn over?"


Not a dig or a troll, just a genuine question.

Is the Stobart Stadium owned by Halton Council? I was under the impression that Widnes Vikings sold their interest in the stadium to the council in 1999. If this is the case, why has SOC had to pay for infrastructure works?

I noticed that the seating spells Vikings on one stand, is this the nature of the investment claimed regarding the 2008 accounts?

WRT turnover and finances, I doubt we want to get into a p*ssing competition. We know the financial weight Widnes have with SOC, bigger crowds and access to larger sponsors.

The club is actually part owned by SOC with a share owned by the council. The money was spent because the ground needed modernising (and can now brag as being one of the best RL purpose built stadiums again) and it is understood that it is one of the aces up our sleeve for a franchise.
You are quite correct that the ground is not owned by the club but it has a long lease on the stadium and it is widely known and understood that the ground is there for the use of the Widnes Vikings for as long as we need it.
There were a number of developments carried out at the ground which were done for the sake of the club...
new changing facilities, new players gym, new electronic ticketing system, new office space for the admin teams and the management, new facilities for coaching including meeting rooms with new technology like TV's, Whiteboards, new breakout area for the players etc.. there is a tour of the stadium which is fantastic..
In terms of the seats.. Stobarts paid for their section, HBC paid for their seats and SOC paid for the Vikings seats as an advertisement and it further enhances the perception and understanding that the stadium is there for the Widnes Vikings.
Quite a bit of the cash going out the door were payments against the debt ran up by the previous board and were part of the administrators agreement.

Just out of interest... have Barrow's finances been made public? Where has this £800k come from. I haven't seen anything official mentioning this number?

If you went about your business quietly and professionally then you would have received a lot more credit for your astounding achievements.
Depsite Calland's outburst the Directors at Fax know how to go about things and do it well.
In comparison you have a man at Barrow that epitomises small club mentality and makes your club seem like nothing more than a jokey play-thing.
The whole farce of him collecting the league leaders shield, the debacle that is his relationship with the coaching staff, his incredible words about losing vast sums of money in the bookies during a time of economic hardship.
He has a vision, but what actually has he committed to Barrow. I noticed that he is refusing to pay for the ground improvements. We are being told of the vast sums of money that you are making as a club. You are not willing to spend the money on youth and yet are looking to recruit another quota player.
You will not gain a franchise in 2012.. your board and your fans realise this. You have a very very good chance in 2015 but you will need to buckle down before then.
It is widely being touted in the media that Widnes have positioned themselves as the favourites for a licence in 2012 and are currently first reserve should anything happen to an existing SL club. The journalist that this has come from is not attached in any manner to the area let alone the club which gives it more credence.

For what its worth i personally don`t think we`d be ready for SL in 2012, BUT if Des & the board think we are then why not go for it ?
I`m always amazed at how fans from other teams know so much about anothers affairs.

It's not hard these days.. everything there is to know and sometimes more is posted on a club's messageboard including what was said at various meetings, press articles and speculation..

Personally speaking I have great admiration for what is happening at Barrow. I have no issues with buying success because every team would do it given the opportunity. But other than that it should be a level playing field.

The accounts for 2008 were released about a month ago and were debated on the Fax forum.

Only real points of interest were that DJ's input to the club amounted to £83k in personal loans and a total £137k of oustanding committments on the club (debts) including the loans made by DJ.

Not too bad I suppose considering the current economic climate, particularly when offset by capital asset of approx £5m. I appreciate that we will have had a hike in wages this year, but we have also had an increase in crowds of approx 1000 per game and approaching another 1000 on the club lottery which generate another £150k+ between them.

The £800k turnover figure was based around a set of figures on attendances, lottery membership and sponsorshiop and appears to have been accepted as a reasonable estimate of club turnonver in 2009.

Think the pa figures were:

Central funding: £100k
7000 club lottery memberships: £360k
Gates 2350 ave x 10 games x £10 ave: £235k
Cup Games: £40k
Merchandising: £40k
Sponsorship. (Club, ground, players): £50k

As you can see the standout revenue stream for us is the club lottery which has kept the club in existance for the last 20+ years.

I could post a link if any of you would like to sign up?

You've got to be innit to winnit !!

We also had approx £120,000 in prize money this year.

The £800,000 figure was quoted by the BOD at a recent fundraising meeting. They seemed to think that it would close to £900,000 by year end.

What do you get if you win??............ a grand in a spare brown envelope?

Only joking lads..

A golden envelope from disco des.

Some of you will have to find someone else as your hate figure, as your favourite victim, Des Johnston will be undergoing a quadruple heart bypass at Blackpool Hospital tomorrow. He'll be stepping down from the BOD for approx 3 months (all being well).

As big a cock as we all think he is, I'm sure we all wish Disco Des a speedy recovery.

Shame on you for trying guilt trip us like that using Des's ill health. Is it really beyond the realms of your intellectual capacity, to understand that this is all just banter?

All the best for a speedy recovery Des.

Reading some posts I wouldn't say ALL was just banter.
Not trying to 'guilt trip' anyone - just posting goings-on at Crazy Park.

I'm sure he'll be back and I'm sure he appreciates your best wishes for what is a major operation.

For god sake, give it a rest

. I understand your envy of Barrow's recent success, but this constant attempt to unpick the club is boring and nothing short of obsessive. The fact of the matter is, Des is doing the best for his club, as all chairmans do. The only difference is Des is more successful. Try focusing on your own club rather than spending this offseason crisitiscing others. Lable barrow as the 'most hated club outside of super league' as much as you please, it will gain NOTHING. See you next year

Best and most succesful by what means though? And surelt success depends on what the Chairman's aims actually are!

Eh???????????

I will have a go at deciphering this.

By what means is clear enough. The current expenditure is sustainable as shown from the club accounts published and the RFL are happy with the club accounts. Non Item!

The second point, do you mean if a club chairman is working towards the development of the club or as I suspect you are implying, building a legacy for himself. If thats his plan he's gonna have to stick around a lot longer than any of us expect or he himself has stated. It takes a lot in a game as fickle as ours to build a legacy.

Whatever people opinions of him are, he's been a breath of fresh air in the club and has raised the profile of the game in the area. Would we all not forgive our chairmans foibles and occasional gaffs for more publicity?

Yaawwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnn
Next please with inane drivel.

IS THIS THREAD STILL GOING .......................................

I actually think its a valid point. I would think that whilst its nice to win the odd thing at this level, what all the top Championship clubs are aiming for is a SL licence. So by labelling Des as more successful, then it very much remains to be seen. I would have thought that if Des wants a licence for Barra, then he should have upgraded the floodlights no questions asked, and also built a recognised and extensive youth development structure. All those sort of things cost money and although Des may or may not be impessing some with the strength of the Barrow 1st team, there are a lot of other things Des could be spending money on, but it doesn't appear that he's willing to do that. Without Steve O'Connor at Widnes, it would be very doubtful that we would have been running an u16's u18's and u21's, but he's been prepared to make the investment as well as ensuring we've been competitive on the pitch. He's also made a heavy investment to a stadium that was already good enough for SL. Everything about SO'C says professionalism - Dessie boy gives the impression hes a flash harry and no-one outside Barrow is that impressed by him.

Got to agree, as a fax fan we'd love somebody with money like o'connor or des. However i think most neutrals would take o'connor everyday of the week as he seems to go queitly about his business rather than be the centre of attention.

Some good points there V4E.

SOC spent hundreds of thousands of pounds on the stadium - the facilities in the north stand (physio area, player meeting rooms, weights room etc.) are superb and a testament to the fact that he wants a professional set-up.

That's what I was getting at yes lads!

Is success building a team or building a club? As the RFL seems intent on maiing the Championship a feeder league currently i'd say building a club for a SL licence atm would be the best option!

Just a pity the RFL didn't visit those upgraded facilities when they went round the club doing their rating on the stadium in the ' license process', and I ain't joking!

One goes with the other in the long run.