One of the main discussion points on these forums has been the Vikings defence this year.

Defence boils down to trust.

If players trust the system that the coach puts in place, and they trust each other, and the system is a sound one, then the only way that a team can break that down is when individuals within the defensive structure make mistakes.

This happens all the time, it's just basic human nature to make mistakes, especially when under pressure. Fatigue also comes into play when defending, as the more tired you get, the less alert you become and when things happen quickly, which they do at the top level of the game, it's hard for tired players to react.

So I suppose you could say that maybe they aren't as fit as they possibly could be.

But then again, when you are coming up ball and giving penalties away, and find yourself on the back foot for 60 minutes of the game, it's inevitable that you'll get tired.

Are their trust issues in the squad, amongst players? Do the players trust the coach? Do the players trust the defensive system in place?

Unfortunately, working hard and having desire isn't quite enough, especially when you are playing against some fantastic attacking threats and in all honesty, when some of the players in the defensive system are very average.

Good teams are able to highlited weaknesses in the defensive line and exploit that.

Can Denis replace the weaknesses with better players? See my previous post

I tend to fall similar to what John is saying. I think at times Betts has got the best out of this group and we've looked great but sometimes a few players aren't 100% and we can look ordinary as a unit.

I think a few players huge drops in form has been overlooked at time as the coach seems to be taking 100% of the blame! Look at games we have lost / drawn by 1-6 points and we've seen 2/3 shocking individual concentration lapses in those?

This Betts favourites stuff really needs to pass by the way as it was always plauers like Pickersgill, Allen and Isa yet Allen doesn't seem to be in the current 17 and they other 2 can't get a look in! Some young lads are getting game time and that was always slated in the same argument.

Some of his selections have been odd given our lack of go forward but the squad certainly needs investment and with that we could easily be knocking hard on the top 8 door.

I wouldn't disagree with you OFFTHECUFF about the choice of players. I've said for a long time now that some of the bottom Super League teams should be looking at Championship players.

The problem is though that the Super League clubs would have to compensate some of the lads playing in the Championship if they were to go full time, as some of them have decent jobs, and the likelihood would be that the clubs would want the players for next to nothing pay.

W

CAMS i know that some players in the Championship cant give up their jobs because on good money.But not all of them because some probably could go fulltime like Chris Hill and Sam Hopkins recently.I even said on the Widnes board a few years ago, we should try Sam Hopkins and guess what Wigan recently sign him.I do wonder what the Widnes scouts do, and it seems Betts dismisses the look out for players in the Championship.All the news is in the local papers,rugby papers, and watching games by travelling, or on Premier Sports.I understand not all can step up to Superleague level though, and on a positive i hope we win on Sunday.





Some jobs you can easily go back to work, and if i was working in a warehouse, or Macdonalds then Rugby be first due to a short career.There is time to do some courses in spare time because players can not train for 8 hours a day. I bet you could volunteer to go with tradesmen to do plumbing,plastering,painting,electrics etc.If say earn £30,000 a year and a part time rugby for £15000, then i can see why players stay in the Championship, if only offered £30,000 fulltime.So CAMS i do see your point of view.

You should become a championship agent Cuffy

I guess that now relegation is back clubs will be even more reluctant to go to the Championship for players (and by the same token Championship players may be more wary). We are back to the need for "instant success" this is going to cause Widnes a real headache I would think as they now need to find 6 or 7 "finished article" players to bolster the side for next season as they cannot take the risk that several players in the current squad will develop further and can be supplemented by 3 or 4 quality additions.

Short termism is back with a bang, with all the risks of clubs bankrupting themselves to stay alive in Superleague. Maybe the likes of Wigan, Warrington and Leeds can cream off the best Championship players, because they have the squads that are already big enough and good enough to absorb them and bring them on, but those teams likely to be in the relegation dog fight will want to spend every penny on proven players!