What are your thoughts on Liam Harris. Last season when he was on the fringes of the Rovers 17, he was at York, where he was ripping it up and was playing out of his skin, this and the fact Jamie Ellis wasn't flavour of the month meant many Rovers fans were calling for him to be played. When he was given his chance he shone, and didn't look out of place in the Championship.
When he signed for Doncaster many Rovers fans were scratching their heads thinking have we let a good un slip the net.
However every time I have seen him play he has looked awful (played OK at Magic Wkd).

I believe he has signed a 2 or 3 year deal for F.C. What are your thoughts about him? He is 23 now, played plenty of League 1. Do you think he will make it as a Super League player and what do you think of his all round game??

not ready yet

but also doesnt help when he his playing behind a beaten pack most weeks, looked ok v the lesser SL teams early on but out of his depth im afraid atm

He’s only 21.

If he can learn to tackle SL players, he’s got a chance. If Hull get some of their halfs back, he’ll be at Doncaster on dual reg or playing for Hull’s rebooted reserves though. Which is sensible, enough - but next time he gets a shot at SL, his defence needs to be better or it could be his last.

Unfortunately I don't think he is good enough, but you could say that about the entire team at the moment so it's on reflection potentially unfair. I don't think he will make it in SL but hope I am proven wrong

In baseball in the US, as players advance through the minor league farm system, there’s a thing they call the double-A jump. Long article here: https://www.fangraphs.com/tht/the-double-a-jump-2/ In short, double-A is the level at which any flaws in a prospect’s game, which might not have been noticeable previously, will be exposed. I think when we see stars of the academy system or league 1 struggle in SL, it is much the same thing. I’m less enamoured than most with the reserves concept - but done well (and therefore probably expensively), it could be a better gauge of readiness for SL and a chance for young players to improve out of the spotlight. However, it just basically brings league 1 in-house, i don’t think it adds very much from that POV.

In baseball in the US, as players advance through the minor league farm system, there’s a thing they call the double-A jump. Long article here: https://www.fangraphs.com/tht/the-double-a-jump-2/ In short, double-A is the level at which any flaws in a prospect’s game, which might not have been noticeable previously, will be exposed. I think when we see stars of the academy system or league 1 struggle in SL, it is much the same thing. I’m less enamoured than most with the reserves concept - but done well (and therefore probably expensively), it could be a better gauge of readiness for SL and a chance for young players to improve out of the spotlight. However, it just basically brings league 1 in-house, i don’t think it adds very much from that POV.

Its a refreshing change to have a thoughtful post from a dobbins fan on here and your point about players jumping up levels and having their limitations exposed is valid. The problem in SL is that the jump here is much greater. The current options are a massive jump from academy, or from Championship or League 1. Though that is a higher level it means coming from a team playing a different system and that brings additional problems in itself. Reserve grade is a must and any clubs that won't run one need booting out.

As for Harris it is best he is taken out of the firing line at present. Its too early to give up on him but at the moment he is being asked to play in a struggling team which can offer him little protection and he is being targeted in defence. There are some good aspects to his game, a willingness to take the ball to the line and decent pace but his confidence is going to be shot to pieces if we aren't careful.

It’ll be interesting to see what lessons Hull take from their last go at running a reserves. How big a squad you’ll go with and it’s make-up, and what’ll happen to your partnership with Doncaster.

In the longer term, I do wonder if newly-formed farm teams could be used to expand interest - and get away from an assumption of first-team passholders go free. Bridlington might make a nice trip during the summer from Hull, and potentially attract local interest. More ambitiously, Scarborough, Shorpe or Grimsby perhaps.

He has shown glimpses of what he can do when he runs the ball, but he certainly doesn't seem to have much of a creative side to him, although tbf he has been on a hiding to nothing with the pack getting beaten up week after week.

Alongside a good ball playing half back partner and behind a pack that is laying a platform, he has something to offer imo, but he isn't ready yet and this year has been a real baptism of fire for him.

On the plus side it's been a good examination and has highlighted the areas he needs to improve on in order to become a SL halfback.
If he works on and improves those areas then it could well prove a beneficial season for him.

To be honest I don't think it's a case of Hull having to learn any lessons from the last time we ran a reserves team as that wasn't the problem. It was more an issue with the lack of games due to other clubs not fielding teams to fulfil the fixtures which is why Hull F.C. stopped the reserve team. Its should really be a mandatory criteria that any club in SL must have a reserve team.

As for Harris I think its too early to bin him off and say he isn't good enough, at present he simply isn't ready and has been asked to play more out lack of bodies. He has shown when up against lesser teams he has potential but asking him to provide miracles behind a pack that is being dominated is crazy as even Sneyd & Kelly would struggle with all their experience and talent at present.

The reserves will be a good thing for Harris to get regular game time and still be in the Hull FC training environment etc.

I think, if you just do the same again, it’ll very likely turn out similarly.

Did Hull themselves not struggle/fail to field a team on one or more occasion? Despite 2016 being a good year for injuries. You’re down to 17 fit players currently according to Lee Radford, never mind being able to field a second 17. You have had a bad time with injuries, but that is a big shortfall.

You started 2016 with 34 players with squad numbers, this year it was 31. Even if you don’t plan to send many or any on dual-reg, it needs to be up closer to 40 imo.

It doesn't have to be all 1st team squad members in the reserves. You can also put in academy players and trialists, rather like the old A team.

I believe that is the reason we went down the dual reg route due to the lack of fixtures in the reserves. If I remember rightly Adam Pearson came out in the press to explain the reasons behind dropping the reserve team as it takes a fair chunk of money run a reserve team properly and said the money could be spent better elsewhere to improve the players etc. problem with dual reg is your players are not in and around your own clubs training environment on a daily basis. Plus its also good to be able to slot players in that have been out for a long period to get a decent run out rather than straight back in to SL.

Dual reg is good for one or two players but is no substitute for a proper affiliated reserve set up. Its about bridging the gap between Senior rugby and the step up from junior which for me is currently to big and we are losing a lot of player who could/would make it if given more time. The reserves isn't just a full team of players who don't make the 17 its for the fringe players with a smattering of players that aren't making the 17 regularly to give them a bit of game time but also help bring on the young players at the same time.

There are a few players that nearly slipped the net because of no "A" team, or were rescued from Amateur. Jamie Shaul for you and George Lawler for us being examples
Wigan have just signed Handkinson, St Helens have Bullock from Barrow. These players look like they didnt mature/play to full potential until they were 21/22.
A reserves team is an excellent concept, aswell as giving squad players meaningful game time it gives clubs a chance to see how some academy players react when playing against "men" in a more physical game.


It also gives clubs a chance to see if there are any diamonds in the rough regarding local amateurs who didnt make it first time around due to different reasons (work/uni/family etc). Add in the fact clubs can look for players in expansion areas and have a good look at them, with nothing to lose for both parties.


I was a ball boy at Rovers when we ran and Alliance team, and witnessed some cracking games and some future international players.

If it is the odd academy player and trialist, that’s fine. However, if it’s half the team it becomes doubtful whether you’re really bridging the gap imo.

Remember the academy have their own fixtures to fulfill, and we’ve only got one between us now.



Yeah, I do see the benefits of a well-run, well-resourced reserve grade. But, in line with Pearson’s thinking above, it will take a chunk of money to do [uproperly[/u. I just think if you’re not going to do it properly, there’s not a lot of value in doing it at all. To help players step up to SL level, it has to be a decent semi-pro level, imo. For most of their history, the old A-teams were a stepping stone to being semi-pro - that won’t work in the modern game I don’t think.

In theory, i’m for a SL reserve league. However, we need to deal with the world as it is, rather than as we’d wish it to be. I don’t think the resource is there to support it properly, so dual-reg, imperfect as it is, is a more effective option.

I’d probably look at leaving players with their community clubs longer, and sending pro coaches to them, rather than bringing them into the academy so young. Then maybe switch to older age-group team. Under18s and 21s, rather than 16s and 19s.

A decent reserves is essential in helping players return from injury too. The game at Wakey was the first game time several of the lads had been given and it showed massively as they were far from match fit.

It’s true. However, another reason why a reserves team needs a reserves squad (or perhaps two thirds of one) is that it is another set of games players can pick up injuries in.

Also at Wakefield, how much was it a case of throwing players back in as soon as they were healthy in a gamble to ‘save’ the season? When you’re thin at first team level, all those players who could do with a run out for fitness and most who are thought of as fringe players are in the first XVII. Then, if you’ve only got a squad of about 35, you’ve a really tough job fulfilling your fixtures - and do you really want to risk losing anymore squad players?

Tbf, adding 10 part-time players to your squad maybe wouldn’t be that expensive. I think the harder part might be convincing them it is better than joining Batley or York or Sheffield.

I remember the cloak and dagger days when we used to trial RU players using exotic names such as A Newman, S.O. Else, A.N.Other etc. Although we don't need to be as secretive now the idea of running a reserve team is one that really needs to happen.

A Director of Rugby from a Super League club expected to field a reserves side in 2019, tonight confirmed that they won't be now running one now until 2020.

I'm thinking that a handful of clubs or merged outfits will play friendlies in 2019 and a competitive reserves league will commence in 2020.

That was definitely the case at Wakey, and Radders even admitted that, but if we'd had a reserves side, those lads could've been getting their fitness up in the preceding weeks instead of being chucked in at the deep end.

To be fair, Sneyd, Griffin and Westerman wouldn’t have had time to play any games. Radford said after the game, it was shoite or bust and we busted trying to keep top four alive.

The main advantage of reserve grade is it allows young players to gain experience by playing alongside seasoned players. In the past every A team had a couple of old heads to give the youngsters the benefit of their experience. As some posters have stated it would also allow injured players to regain match fitness

I don’t think the potential benefits of running reserve teams are greatly in question. Cost-benefit, is a bit more challenging.

I guess what i’m curious about is how people think SL clubs should structure their squads to make it feasible (i.e. fixtures are not cancelled problematically often) and worthwhile (i.e. the standard is sufficiently high to assess and prepare players for SL). I don’t think recent attempts have really worked in those regards, and it needs some better planning.



A bit of lead-in time is likely required if they want something more than ad hoc friendlies, so that seems sensible. Without a structure for SL in 2019 yet announced/agreed, it’s even tougher to organise anything more formal.

On the subject of Liam Harris, I didn't think he was ready for Super League when playing for Donny earlier this season. He was very good in the games we dominated but didn't quite look the same player when openings and opportunities had to be worked for. I could see his game developing though through the good coaching of Richard Horne.

It's hard to judge him on what he's done playing for you as he been playing behind a beaten pack. His defensive weaknesses have been exposed in the Hull games I've seen but I think it's far too early for you to give up on him. He plays with a good attitude and I'm sure he'll be learning from these experiences. As others have mentioned, it won't be a good thing if his confidence gets knocked too much though.

He perhaps needs a season playing in the Championship where he'd be challenged more than he was at Doncaster but not quite put under the pressure he's been put under at Hull.

With regards to Hull running a second team, I'm not sure how that will affect the DR arrangement with us. I've always been a supporter of all Super League teams having a reserve grade but I wonder whether there are enough players around to sustain a proper competitive reserve grade competition?

Super League reserve teams will be made up of first teamers who aren't being picked or need game time after coming back from injury, along with some youngsters who may have been lost to the game when becoming too old for academy sides. I see this as the positive benefits to the game from having a reserve grade.

The additional question is whether Super League reserve teams will also be made up of players who would normally be plying their trade in the Championship or League one? Or will those players prefer to continue playing competitive games at their present clubs?

I suspect the answer to that may come down to money. If playing reserve rugby for a Super League team pays more than playing for a Championship or Championship One side, players may gravitate to the Super League reserves.

If that is the case, the knock on effect is then perhaps that Championship and Championship One clubs will try to raid the amateur game to make up their squad numbers. Would that make life tougher for the community clubs to survive?