I have become totally disillusioned with rugby, it seems to me that the game has come to a plan of set plays and no room for flair players, there are no more knocker Norton's, Mick Cranes Gavin Millers etc. If the ball isn't played behind two dummy runners then that's it, no wonder the game is in a state. Rugby is an expansive physical game not a board game ( bored game)over coaching is killing our great game bring back the ball handlers and side step and most of all PASSION.

Ball handlers don't get enough room with the ball due to fitter and more organised defences.

Good ball handlers would make room whoever they were up against.

Yep, you're right. The games rubbish now.

If this were remotely true then surely coaches would encourage it,unfortunately for you there are no part time beer swilling props for ball handlers to waltz around anymore.

Anyone who has watched their son come through the junior ranks will tell you that (apart from one or two exceptional coaches) the ''football'' is coached out of them from the age of six. If any boy is still trying to perfect his skills the SL clubs come knocking around the age of 13 and they soon ''coach'' that out of them.

Unfortunately from SL clubs to National Conference clubs to the junior community clubs the only calls are ''line speed'' and ''win the ground''.

Your right RL is in trouble !!!

Id love my loose forward to be like Knocker and the stand off to be like Tony Myler but the game has evolved and the line speed of defence would nulify these players,unfortunate for us oldies but skills are still on show with certain individuals.

Yet in the times of Knocker / Miller etc the defences were only taken back 5 yards as opposed to the 10 metres they are now brought back. Even with increased fitness that is some improvement.
Sadly the days of a loose man with a rugby brain are now behind us and as the OP states thats to the detriment of the sport. Certainly for those of us who recall life before super league.

You are spot on just look at Tommy Lee and Scott Moore, they ripped the Aussies to pieces at 18's as the half backs and SL turned them into big hookers!

That's why Holdsworth isn't at the top of my favourites list.

Last week against St Helens, I don't think he was tackled once in the whole game, apart from when someone caught him round the head.
And that's not an indication of how illusive he was.

I'm still a believer in off-halves running with the ball in hand, and not being judged by how well they can kick a ball.

I blame 'skinny tens'

I yearn for the old type loose forward! I think a l lot of it is the Aussie influence. I know a lot of it has been to the benefit of our game, fitness etc. But the beauty has flown. No matter how fit and well drilled they are nowadays, I still believe a bit of the unexpected will beat it 9 times out of 10.

We've got a great ball playing LF, with a fantastic football brain - his name is Richard Whiting.

This was brought up over a pint before the game on Friday. I (2icon_cool.gif was disagreeing with and old timer about the value of the full time uber fit athletes we have today. He says he'd rather go back to the old days but think that to have these machines of players is a whole new kind of entertainment. I do agree that there is much improvement for entertainment. But I think a tighter comp with less teams and promotion and relegation will help bring more consistently high levels of entertainment

Spot on!