Saints beat leeds without their 2 first choice half backs. I've been lead to believe that without them you have to play like a bag of shoite and roll over whenever you play anyone half decent

21 homegrown players on display too, apparently Wigan had 11 last night and Huddersfield are pretty decent in that department. That to me was pretty striking.

i think the 4 teams on sky over the weekend and warrington have showed how far away we are from the top 5

about 7 places i reckon and for points deductions it would be 9
GOD i'm depressed only thing that cheers me up is i'm not wasting my money going to watch them and i'll keep saving my hard earned cash till we get a new coach. went to ice hockey saturday and was the only local team to win this weekend.

Hows that a miracle, they got to a GF last year without them too

but we've been led to believe that all of FC's woes are down to our first choice half backs not playing together.

The reality from Friday night is that one of them isn't good enough (and never has been the standard that some claim) and the other really isn't interested.

So Horne has a bad game and we are slating him again.

The annoying thing was, on form, our best half was sat on the bench. Our attack was not working so why did he wait till the last 10 minutes to bring Obst back on in the halves, and then he took Long off who for once was actually taking the line on (although has passing game was ineffective).

Its like he thinks if we do the same thing time and time again it might magically start working. We cannot adjust our gameplan at all. Since he has been coaching the side you generally know in the first 10 minutes if we are going to get beat or not.

not slating, just stating what I've said for a long time, he is not the player some claim him to be.

What are these claims people have been making about him?

did you not see the "world class" comments after the Wigan game?

Anyway, I'm not bagging Richard for that one performance, nobody gets any credit from Friday so nobody gets specific criticism either. Things are not right at the club, it seems fairly clear.

So one person says "world class" and that turns into the collective opinion of the forum ?

I agree about Friday, and as I recall there was only 1 person claiming Horne to be world class after Wigan. We know who that was!

World class is thrown about too much in our game, there's only been 5 or 6 English players I would call "world class" in the last 10 years:

Morley
Burgess
Long
Sculthorpe
Ellis
and maybe Cunningham.

No James Graham ??....I consider Graham World Class

not at all, I was being deliberately obtuse.

Horne is a solid player, he had a bad night on Friday, he wasn't alone in that.

You have to look at what the major differences between the Wigan performance and the Wakefield one.

1) we lost O'Meley, a big loss, but something we should have more than coped with.

2) Long in for Obst, it wasn't until Long went off and Obst came on that the team looked coherent.

Not yet, maybe he'll prove himself in Oz next year.

Fair enough, I believe he is already WC, he is a prop who plays like a h/back and his work rate is awesome, I reckon he will be like Fitz as he matures, his work ethic is very similar, great player would love to see him in B & W!!

I agree, it's all there. Needs to go to the NRL though imo. Saints will have killed him by the time he's 27. He could yet burn out like Fielden.

He has certainly being flogged, it will be interesting to see how Royce uses him actually this season.

Didn't seem to get as much game time as normal on Saturday.

I think/hope Royce will not flog him to death, I was also impressed that Royce was not shy to use young ones...it is definitely the future, wish our club would try it a bit more

Horne has never been world class, he's a very good SL player. He was poor on Friday no excuses but it doesn't make him a bad player or finished.

and I haven't said either

he should get a reduced deal if we keep him though