I also believe that its down to Agars (and other coaches) obsession with playing a prop/2nd rower at 13......we dont have no ball handler/pivot from there since J.Smith and dare i say it ...Cooke.

As for dummy runners....we may as well not bother...the 1st match at Sts in the fog we had dummy runners galore but then it dried up for some reason.

It's the main reason we struggle when close to the opposition line. The man with the ball has no options and we're therefore predictable and easy to defend against

The point I would make that it was ONLY ever Briscoe backing up - our problems go back that far.

Our first choice HB quality should be fine. Our second/third choice pairings not so much.

Washy will never be a half as long as he draws breath. He makes Rich Horne look creative.

We should have done better with what we had available this season - in some games at least. But that wasn't my original point. I was focusing on the accusation of boring rugby, not whether we made the best of a bad lot.

Got to agree, everytime the ball touches him the fluency of the attack just stops dead... then he'll either throw a poor pass out or he'll does he ever so predictable step.

Craig Fitzgibbons role needs to change from the 80 minute battering ram down the middle of the park. As the season has gone on he started to look cream crackered particularly in the latter stages of the game.

A ball handling 13 is imperative for next season imo.

I fear that Agar is inflexible in his approach. We've been saying for a few years now that Whiting or Washy must play 13. Agar doesnt agree.

Look at the tackle count against the shower from the East.

Fitz 45
Houghton 45

no wonder poor Fitz was blowing

Not just the rovers game. He puts between 40-50 tackles in per game because of the way we utilise him. We've burnt him out over the season.

Dont think Washy is good enough personally but would certainly give Whiting a chance to show what he can do at 13 if we dont bring one in.

Fresh blood in the halves is still number one priority though.

Would Westerman be the ideal at 13?

We need fresh fit halves i agree but also believe we are never going to progress as a club with Agar in charge.

Most could see we burned him out after the mid way point.

We've come flying out the blocks for the past two seasons and played poorly at 'the end of the season, when you need to be at your best.

I cant beleive that as the season has gone on that Agar and Fitz have not discussed this situation! We only ever seem to spell him if he is injured.

Imo westerman would be the perfect signing, I'd be a bit worried about the drinking rumours though.

Fitz needs to take a little bit of the blame too. He approaches games like he thinks he's still 21. He needs to put his hand up and tell Agar he cant do it anymore. He looks to have aged another 3 or 4 years over the space of 12 months with us.

Whats happened to the "massive impact" Fitz has made to the team since his arrival. Its ok Agar crowing saying him and Long are amazing and teaching him stuff, but if these guys are telling Agar what would work best and the "young" coach isnt listening then god help us!

I've not heard the rumours but maybe we need to get the drinking culture back at the club. We used to play better with King and Cooke in the side.

It's how he's always played, in his last season with roosters fittler tried to change the way he played to a more ball handling role with little success.

I dont want to change the way Fitz plays, i want to use him wider and for shorter spells rather than 80 mins.

Didnt Liam Watts mention how he moved away from Cas and changed his drinking culture in doing so recently on sky?

Westerman has all the attributes skill wise so yes I would sign him.

Back to the original topic, signing Westerman wont make me renew my pass.

In the second row then?

yes, he said he use to be tee-total before he moved but now hes on the lash 8 nights a week

Yup.