I think a lot of the frustration regarding JW is that if you were to watch a highlights package of his final season at Cas and then compare it with all of his highlights in his full career at Hull, most of us would feel a tad shortchanged.

You've done this, then?

Haha

Don't think we'll hear much from some posters for a while

I have no problem with people opinions, even though this was obviously way over the top, but he should be man enough to come on here and admit he is wrong.

I have been wrong many times and will be many times in the future, so far I am certainly wrong about some signings like Feka and even Radford to some extent.

Even Jake is man enough to say when he might have been wrong.

Great to see him fulfilling his promise at last. Long may it continue.

True. So over to Tinkerman23 to admit he was wrong

Why? I for one stand by everything I said. Westerman's failings in the last 3 three years - and there [iwere[/i glaring failings - were, I believe down to his professional attutude. I simply don't believe he put his all into it. Whether that was because he was being played out of what he considered to be his position, or because he didn't practice hard enough to train the errors out of his game or enjoyed life too much as a celebrity off the pitch is irrelevant - we did not see the commitment we are now. It was that frustration that brought out people's angst against him - the realization that he was capable of so much more yet chose not to reach that potential.

That said, this year he's been wondrous. So exciting to watch - leading the pack and drawing the opposition - we're seeing that elusive potential. I'm thrilled. But that in itself beggars the question, such a transformation, is it because he [icouldn't[/i or [iwouldn't[/i before? I accept he is happier and has proved shatteringly destructive at LF, but I suspect there is a fair degree of 'wouldn't' also in the answer to that question.

Hull's best player so far, and long may it continue. Just one more question - is there a touch of the 'won't' attitude in that, once Crooks was dropped last night, the goal-kicking duties fell to the ever-willing Whiting?

I disagree with your first statement I'm afraid. No matter how badly we played Westerman always put his heart on his sleeve and you could see that with his frustration at times. IMO he always rallied the team on and always tried hard! But I do agree in your other statemt, best player this yearicon_smile.gif

Some fair points but I think Westy has been a good player for Hull, just not hit the heights we hoped he would. I have never been able to fault his effort.

The last comment is daft though. If you're not confident in your ability as a kicker you don't do it. I'm not sure I would be able to kick a touch line conversion if I had 50 attempts, so if I was asked to be a kicker I would say I'm not good enough so I don't want it as it would be bad for the team. It has nothing to do with commitment.

Sure, he demonstrated frustration, both with the team performances and at his own errors. But how hard did he work in training to correct those errors and to improve his performances in the position Gentle chose for him?

It's easy to show frustration. Most players do it, and we saw a lot of 'crocodile tears' frustration from most of them in that final (deliberate?) capitulation against Huddersfield last year. Puts you in a good light if you do. But what's that frustration worth if you don't take individual responsibility to correct matters moving forward? Many of our players were guilty of that last year, imo, but Westerman's transformation is [iso[/i complete questions must be asked about how hard he tried to do what Gentle asked of him last year.

That's a reasonable question because as wonderful as he is so far this season, he has been far from wonderful so far in his Hull career. Not appalling, mind, just average, but certainly not fulfilling his potental. Why is that? Why does anyone not fulfil potential? Is is the fault of oneself, or the fault of others?

Hmm yeah I get where you're coming from! I think he'll make a great leader. Like you said it's all about what happens in training. Obviously I'm not in the position to say how hard he trained, nor how anyone trained. The positive now though is the team is playing well. We've had a better start than I predicted so overall very happyicon_smile.gif

Unbelievable - so now when a player plays well it's because he hadn't been training/trying before.

The kicking thing could be a confidence issue, I agree, and last night was not a game where goal-kicking was going to be a gamebreaker. But historically Westy has more experience of and better completion than poor old Whiting. This area still remains a concern - what if we need Westerman to step up as the best kicker we possess? Is Radford nurturing him to regain his confidence, or will he be content to let Westerman remain withdrawn from this responsibility?

Remains a worry, this.

It's amazing the lengths some people will go to in order to avoid admitting they were wrong. Making up increasingly far-fetched scenarios without a scrap of supporting evidence in a desperate attempt to justify an opinion based entirely on a personal dislike of a player. Some of it is laughable, some just embarrassing.

Ho hum.

He's always been capable of playing this well, though. That's the point.

Anyway. I'm delighted with him this season. East Hull Fc Fan's assurances that he could be our SO'L appear to be bearing fruit. Exciting times for sure.

He looks a lot leaner and fitter than he has done for years, there have always been rumours about drinking off the field before...

I have been one of his biggest critics, but his form this season has been fantastic and Radford is getting the best out of him.

The fact he's playing really well now doesn't magically alter the fact he was pretty ordinary in the past regardless of any mitigating factors. I'm man enough to admit he is playing far better this season then his previous form led me to believe and long may that continue.

Let's not forget either that despite the fact he seems to have been around forever he is only 24. Maybe it has taken him until now to really mature and realise the standards expected of him if he wants to kick on in his career. We have players only a year or two younger who have only played a handful of games and are still regarded as kids.

I admit when I'm wrong. Despise those who don't. See 'Hats off the Radford' thread for today's admission about being wrong about [ihim[/i. I don't believe I am wrong about Westerman's contribution - until this year - for our club, though.

And to make an assumption that this reservation is based on "personal dislike of a player" is a very "far-fetched scenario without a scrap of supporting evidence", "laughable and embarrassing". I don't know Westerman so how can I personally dislike him? My 'evidence' for my opinion of him as a player is based purely on his performances both prior to this year and this season, and the miraculous leap to measure up to his potential.

Pleased that he has, at last? I'm thrilled, and very excited for the future for him.

Same above for me

Why give him a role of goal kicking, it may affect his confidence and play on his mind, then affect his game.

Some players, like Whiting can handle everything, so let him carry on and let Westy do what hes doing now, playing as an on the ball forward (or a 7)

Its working well and letting us play with two wider 6's

too many pigeon hole a role to a shirt number, games about flexibilty at times and play what works, dont square peg a round hole

I put a tenner on Westerman for MOS last year. It appears I was possibly a year too early

Glad we gave him a contract extension last year!.
Could have been highly sought after on current form.

He's never been as bad as some made out he was, some people just have it in for him. To balance that off, he's never hit the heights that some of us have always known he can hit, but he's never been given this role before. Sure he's played in the middle at 13 plenty of times. But as Hutchie said, his role as first receiver is allowing us to play with split HB's very effectively. It's also good that it's him throwing the ball out the back rather than a prop, our attack is a lot quicker just because of this.

I thought he was a bit of a princess in his first 2 years. Much better last year. Terrific this year so far. What we seem to be seeing all round, and in none more than Westy, so far is a bounce in the step, appetite to work hard for each other, and much more confidence going forward. Brilliant.