I agree. Miller seems to try things even if they don't come off for him. That to me still makes him promising and full of potential.

DJ's had some good games for us too but they seem to be few and far between in my eyes. I'm hoping he can improve too but personally think we are more likely to see improvement from Miller.

Is it possible DJ's still suffering a bit from that head injury do you think?

Well not just the speed but the quality of the pass and also what options they have to put doubt into the defenders minds.

Holdsworths "demise" came after his head injury, seems to be forgotten.

I don't think it's so much that as that Miller at least tries different things & looks dangerous at times, whereas Holdsworth seems happy to just meander through games with about 4 plays: inside ball, next man along the line, look for McDonnell, or kick. They're all pretty basic, too.

I'm amazed that some on here are comparing a 21 year old kid with a handful of super league games under his belt to a seasoned pro who is quite prepared to go missing in games.

Its's gonna be interesting because he was firmly PG's man and he appeared to have a lot of faith in him.
Hopefully he has it in him to lift it to another level next season now he's bedded in.
I have lingering doubts mind.

I think Holdworth just has a different style of play. Miller always looks 'busier', like Burrow for Leeds. Holdsworth's style is more like Sinfield's. Not saying either are anywhere near as good, by the way, just using them to illustrate a point. So if we have a crap ptb speed and no runners for halfbacks to pick out, it will look like Miller's trying more because of his style of play, whereas Holdworth just does the same things because they're the options he has available. I think they could be good together if we sort out the other facets of our play that are letting us/them down.

That's not true. IIRC, he came back at the start of May, and he was very good by mid-May against Wire, Rovers, and Leeds, then again in July in the 2 cup games. It was mainly August he seemed to disappear, although he was half decent at Craven Park.

The difference was a fair bit the pack restricting him, but my issue is just how meekly he responds to that. He's supposed to be the senior playmaker at the club, and I'd just expect a half approaching 30 to take a bit more charge tbh. If he's not going to run with the ball and take the line on, and doesn't seem keen to take charge, what exactly does he see his role as, a specialist kicker?

Milky seems to have the one ingredient that many of the others seem to be lacking.

Its called ENTHUSIASM!!

I do still think they could be better together, but I think the Sinfield comparison is way off. Sinfield has way more to his game and invariably picks the right option after assessing what's possible. Half the time Holdsworth looks to me like he's decided his play before he gets the ball (shuffling the ball along the line), and other times seems to just get desperate as he's closed down (kicking through aimlessly on the 3rd or 4th tackle). I think I've said it before, but sometimes his play epitomises the problems in our attack, alternating between aimless, predictable, and panic-ridden.

As I tried to make clear, I wasn't comparing him to Sinfield in terms of ability. What I meant was that there's less drama to what Sinfield does, whereas Burrow always looks a bit more 'high energy'. I reckon Holdworth picks the wrong option a lot of the time because his options are invariably so limited. With quicker ball and more players in motion, I think he could do well. He's had too many decent games for him to be a poor player, but I think he's one of those players who needs better players around him to produce his best.



All of which could be overcome if he gets better quality ball and has more options when he receives it. In my opinion.

holdsworth is the most creative player we have.i would say hes created more tries than any other player in the team.thisdespite missing a fair few games with injury and with various halfback partners.his combination with horne was really working till both were injured.imo of course.then again some don't think hes good enough.fair enough,but whos realistically available?

Horne - 18 assists, 35 tackle busts, 11 clean breaks
Miller - 9 assists, 25 tackle busts, 4 clean breaks
Holdsworth - 17 assists, 4 tackle busts, 2 clean breaks

this for me highlights the problem with Holdsworth - he is a catch and pass player, he doesnt engage the line enough and give the defence any doubt as to what he is going to do - Horne and miller play at the line either putting people through or going themselves with conviction as it shows with the busts and breaks

I still disagree with the Sinfield comparison, not just on playing ability. Even when it's going against Leeds you can still see Sinfield actively trying to take control, and that's precisely what we're not getting from Holdsworth and my major question about what he offers. When we're having a bad time, the player's who seem to want the ball more are Heremaia, Miller, Horne, Whiting, and Westerman. Personally I just think that Holdsworth should be amongst that group but isn't.

We seemed to do a lot of tackling and I feel that is what has being the downfall of our attack. Slow PTB and a lightweight pack have also contributed to a lack of dummy runners due to the large work ethic in defence IMO.

Hopefully with a bit more punch coming in and a new conditioner it may be something Radders and the coaching staff can achieve.

I feel if we see that improve we will see more of Miller and Holdsworth.

Them stats tell you all you need to know really.

We should be looking at a Miller/Horne partnership next year.

Ok, let me try again. I don't think Holdsworth is like Sinfield, I just think he's more like him than he is Burrow. That's as far as the 'comparison' goes. Sinfield's strength is in his organisation, his passing and his kicking game. In Holdsworth's better games, he has also done well in these areas. He's even turned in a couple of MOM performances undertaking this role.



Perhaps that's true, but it's easy to see why he wouldn't want to continually receive slow ball in poor positions to then be clobbered by the opposition and castigated by fans. I agree that he needs to improve the consistency of his performances, but I think that'll happen a lot easier once he has a decent platform to work with.

OK, my turn to try again. I don't think it's a good comparison. 1. Because I don't think Holdsworth does organise us enough, hence why we've been disorganised almost all year. 2. Because I don't think his passing is anything special, nothing more than adequate for a halfback (some of his passing from dummy-half this year has made Houghton look world class).

Where we simply disagree on a fundamental level is when you say that Burrow is more eye-catching than Sinfield. If you know what you're looking at, no he isn't, and particularly when his team and pack are up against it because he then has less opportunity to shine whilst Sinfield is still clearly their main man trying to make things happen. That's my entire point about what I think Holdsworth isn't offering us, quality, leadership and guidance/composure when we most need it.

So basically, comparing him to Sinfield highlights my problem with rather than makes an allowance for him, as just because he doesn't run with the ball doesn't mean we should barely notice he's playing when we're not on top. That's certainly not typically the case with Sinfield, Brough, Briers, Dureau, or several others who play that sort of a role for their teams.

You're joking, right? Brough and Briers are two of the worst culprits for being anonymous when they're on the back foot.

And didn't he only have one assist fewer than Horne this year?

They're less effective, yes, but I don't agree they get less involved or stop trying things. Look at Brough against Wigan, he was awful and kept making errors, but he was still trying to take control. That's what Holdsworth lacks IMO, and is the quality of which we are most in need.

And yes he did, but to be fair Horne also played less games in the halves.

I've seen both have games in the past where they go missing if things aren't going their way. Briers particularly.



The quality of trying stuff that's ineffective because we're being beaten in other areas? I don't think you can blame a half back for taking the wrong option if the only options he has are to pass it to a stationary player outside of him, or drop it off to Tickle on the inside. When the forwards are on top, Holsworth usually plays well or very well. When the forwards are being dominated (as ours often are) he's less effective. But then, so is Miller, he just looks busier whilst he's doing it.



Even so, everyone has raved about Horne's performances whilst Holdsworth has been widely panned. I fully accept that Horne has been better, but I don't think the difference is as vast as some are making out. I firmly believe that if we can sort out our ptb speed and Houghton can improve his distribution (big ifs, I know), Holdsworth will have a good season next year.

Of course it's happened sometimes, it will for all players. I said that it [itypically[/i isn't the case. Holdsworth did it for about the last month and a half of our season.



But he rarely only has just those 2 options. We're bad, but not quite that bad. He could throw a cut out pass to the winger, try taking the line on or drawing the defender before passing, or kick with a bit of purpose rather than a lot of hope. But he doesn't.



I've not panned Holdsworth. I've said that I think he should be better, but not that he's been poor (I don't think. If so, I retract going that far), and that in a direct comparison to Miller he doesn't seem to want to take charge as much, when as the supposed senior half I think he should. I haven't raved about Horne, either, just pointed out that he's been better as you've just agreed.

It's one of the most pathetic things I see on here when someone says a player/coach isn't good enough and is then someone else comes on and challenges them to name better. It's not my job to name anyone better. I don't have the contacts in the game, know enough about our playing budget, which players are or may be available, what transfer fee may be allotted and a host of other things. It's the management at the club's job to do these things, not mine

Have to agree.

I'd say it is typically the case with those two players. It doesn't happen as frequently these days because their forwards aren't dominated as often as ours. When Wire were in our position, Briers went missing all the time.



Taking the line on and drawing defenders only works if there are other attacking players in motion. All too often, there are not.



Didn't mean you personally necessarily, but I do think Holdsworth gets a rough ride on here and that the difference between his season overall and Horne's isn't as great as it's often made out to be.

For some reason I thought he got injured at Leeds. Never mind sack him!