so every body just watches one player have a bad game

its a team game.. the all team on Sunday were Shi-- ..We only played for about 15 minutes to rate anybody I would find its hard to give anybody more then 5 out of ten.. and the 5 is for them going onto the pitch

..before people have a go ..I have got my tickets for the Saints game on Monday ..When we get beat I don't put defeat down to individuals

Again Horne was equally as bad, but no thread or slagging him off on here!

Funny that eh.

Thorman seems to be the new whipping boy, bet Tommy Lee is happy though



Thorman seems to be doing at decent job the job I thought he would do, nobody was slagging him off until we get beat.

Not many halfbacks can play well behind a beaten pack and thats what has been happening the last few games.

Ok his kicking has been a bit hit and miss and he has made a few mistakes, but who hasnt in the last couple of games.

His kicking game is the biggest letdown, I mean from the pov of kicking near the tryline when it is clearly not on. When our pack has been on top then he has done well.

A number of times on Sunday he had plenty of time to pick his spot with his mid range kicks only to find a Salford player on the full. He has to improve this and his decision making under pressure. By no means Hull's main problem though as some have suggested.

There may be no thread, but any number of people have mentioned that Horne isn't playing well.

Anyway - do you really expect a rational discussion of individual players on here?

Im not starting on this again, im laughing at your post saying that stats are captured subjectives but you'd rather believe other sources of information such as what people see and hear which are far more subjective. Was a bit of an odd statement to be honest when you start talking subjectivity of stats.

Cos the mistakes we make look down to fatigue, thats not their fault (other than the ones on the booze the night before)

When we have the ball in hand we have some of the best players going, we just dont use them. Our boring 5 drives and a kick is knackering our forwards stopping them winning the collision and putting us under more pressure. We only use 9 or 10 interchanges and arent smart with the ones we make. The players occasionally take the wrong option, Thorman for example is being slated for one poor kick and other than that he played to Agars tight tactics.

Its Agars fault for either setting the wrong tactics or not getting the message out to play to the correct tactics during the last handful of games, as well as using his interchanges poorly. He looks clueless.

But I didn't say that. I merely pointed out that the kind of thing mentioned would not be captured by statistics but has a big impact on the defensive effectiveness of a player. Hence my distrust of stats as an absolute measure.

I form my own opinion of players. If I'm going to be using subjective information, it might as well be from my own subjective viewpoint.

least you would agree with it then i guess. (or maybe not?)

Scientific training makes discussion with 'normals' difficult, as I discovered on the Sin Bin. They have a lot more faith (

) than us in FACTs.

Btw, do you ever find yourself using terms like 'order of magnitude' and 'confounding factors' in normal conversation?

Well they were fatigued from minute one on Sunday then. Top players should not always need telling what to do and when to do it. Take Wilkin on Sunday he did a fantastic job and I don't for one minute think it was down to the coach. It was down to his willingness to play a new position and play to the strengths he has.

When we kick downfield we often have a leisurely jog up, there is no urgency in our playwhatsoever and that is down to players being too much in their comfort zone.

We have zero enthusiasm in the side other than for the odd player and our players like to do just enough rather than psuhing themselves.

Doesnt a team tempo come from training at a tempo? Doesnt motivation come from our coach? Our management structure clearly isnt inspirational.

I noticed that too. Its so frustrating to see a kick go to waste on a leisurely jog up and noone putting the opposition under any pressure.

You wait till Friday we will be put under enormous pressure in this department. This EFFORT will be the difference between the two teams !

I would agree to some extent but you seem to be saying that the players can't think or motivate themselves and are like kids that need to be told what to do.

It seems to me on here that we must not slg off the like of Horne, Radford and Tickle etc but we can have open season on Agar.

The coach does have to take responsibility without question but so do the players.

Kear - sacked
Sharp - sacked
Agar - to be sacked??

Yet some of the players still remain, maybe they are the root of the problem.

Spot on Paul.

Paul Spot on what I was saying to me dad on sunday.

Thorman has been very poor for three successive matches. Richard Horne was much better in all three. Can't believe similarities are being made.

I, personally, would drop him for the Derby game and play Lee at 7. He had a cracker against Rovers last season. Don't think Agar will do this though, but if he has another poor game on Friday, he must be dropped for the Saints game, or its just saying there is no competition for places and you'll get played every week whatever.

agree Kear - sacked (rightly so) Blunt - sacked (rightly so) Agar - sacked ?? was never going to be the answer

and yet Radford, King, Lee, G Horne etc.. etc.. are all still here ????

Season after season of mediocrity and yet we just keep extended their contracts ??? WTF is going on at Hull ??

Who's to blame ?? JR ?? KH ?? both ?? or is it just the fact that the fans will relentlessly spend £££££££'s and ££££££'s on season passes, merchandise and matchdays however ordinary our squad is ???

The board knows that it can consistently take the pi$$ out of us whilst watching the money roll in and we will undoubtedly keep coming back for more.

Some of the players who cant stay off the booze before matches are definately the problem in my eyes.
Sends out an awful message to everyone !!

Too many average players reatined and too many utility players who aren't exceptional in 1 position.

Average players = radford, g horne, lee, king, cusack (despite being good this year) to name a few

Need rid of some forwards as we have 2 many and need a specialist centre and scrum half as chris thorman is a good player but only a stop gap IMO

Also a new full back unless craig hall makes it his position this season.

Totally agree Paul. Shouldn't Sunday at least of been staying in the challenge cup and planning their route to Wembley, with a bit of heart and soul behind it regardless of who the coach is or was?

whos this then ? been nosey again

I don't know, but you are treading a very thin line with that one!