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| Quote ="Mrs Barista"I never said they all worked out, did I? Nor for that matter denied that Rovers have made some great signings like Dobson, Paea and Blake Green. My point was a relatively simple one. For all the manifold
emoticons by your honourable "friend", we hold all the bragging rights at present. All of them, as detailed in my post about 2013 results, points, players and academy. Expanding on the latter, it cannot be argued there is any evidence that Hudgell has prioritised, at any point in the last 10 years, the development of a robust academy to yield a consistent pipeline of players. Money's been spent on other things, for sure, but the harsh reality is that nearly a decade in, apart from Welham, who's what, 27?, there's only Cox who might get in the first choice 13. In the meantime, the choice continues to be the likes of Langley, Gleeson, Maki over investing enough to make a real step change in academy delivery. No doubt we'll get the jam tomorrow commentary, but 2 years ago, Bell and Heil were the next big things and here we are. Groundhog Day. It's nice for us to be in a position of relative strength in this area, particularly as Hudgell promised on promotion that "Soon all the good Hull lads will want to play for Rovers". If he'd elaborated with"all the good Hull lads called Krissy" he might have been right.'"
Glad you're so upbeat.
You live and learn.
Change can be hard to take, but often the biggest step is being brave enough to make the switch in the first place. You might have a plan to make a club a powerhouse in rugby league, but sometimes you have to rip up the script and start again, if you're to elevate something beyond (or above) mediocrity. Sometimes you've said things that have built expectations to a level that is near impossible to meet.
Rovers have restructured their academy set-up. We hope it brings improvements.
While the Kristian Bell hype snowballed slightly surreally, I don't recall Heil ever having been more than a 'maybe', at best.
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| Quote ="Mild Rover"Glad you're so upbeat.
You live and learn.
Change can be hard to take, but often the biggest step is being brave enough to make the switch in the first place. You might have a plan to make a club a powerhouse in rugby league, but sometimes you have to rip up the script and start again, if you're to elevate something beyond (or above) mediocrity. Sometimes you've said things that have built expectations to a level that is near impossible to meet.
Rovers have restructured their academy set-up. We hope it brings improvements.
While the Kristian Bell hype snowballed slightly surreally, I don't recall Heil ever having been more than a 'maybe', at best.'"
I'm not that upbeat about the season coming, but merely clarifying that any suggestion[u right now[/u that bragging rights are anything other than west of the river is pure delusion. 2014 will be totally different, Mike Smith has pledged that himself, that's good enough for me.
RBA said that Heil would be an imminent Challenge Cup winner I remember, but his form in the overstatement of Rovers potential in the academy arena is world class.
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| Quote ="Mrs Barista"I'm not that upbeat about the season coming'"
I think both clubs have tried to take things in new directions, the last couple of seasons and they've been equivocally successful in that, at best. Some of the things that went well were slightly serendipitous. I'll avoid the L-word, but Lineham is 22 and Green turns 24 in a few days - much of the credit for them must go the system of the previous regime, that AP has castigated. While the players like Arundel and Crookes, bought to fill a perceived talent gap, for one reason or another, haven't been able to offer much. At Rovers, the 'transitional years' have looked little like I, or I suspect any fan, expected. But we seem to have somehow got on a more even keel.
Some harsh lessons have been learned, but I think both clubs have made appropriate adjustments.
Neither Hudgell or Pearson are stupid - but equally they're not infallible. Not everything will always work out exactly as they plan. But there's reason for optimism, I'd have thought.
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| Quote ="Mrs Barista"I know what you mean. It's less than a year though, since him and Mike Smith car-shared to Gateshead. Would have loved to have been on that road trip.'"
I have a vision of Mike in a thirteen year old BMW 7 series full of empty bottles of Dr. Pepper, packets of Lambert and Butler and Frazzles.
Both of the them singing along to Johnny Cash and Mike getting his card declined at the motorway services.
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This only been in SL for 7 years from Rovers fans is getting old, how many more years are they going to pedal this out. They will never improve if they keep signing players Like the PNG players in positions they have young players.
One area that gas been vastly neglected by NH, no coincidence that Rovers and Salford are the only 2 teams in SL not to have one player in any of the England academy squads, even Cumbria academy and north east academy who neither are in SL have any players in it.
www.therfl.co.uk/news/article/29 ... nd-academy
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This only been in SL for 7 years from Rovers fans is getting old, how many more years are they going to pedal this out. They will never improve if they keep signing players Like the PNG players in positions they have young players.
One area that gas been vastly neglected by NH, no coincidence that Rovers and Salford are the only 2 teams in SL not to have one player in any of the England academy squads, even Cumbria academy and north east academy who neither are in SL have any players in it.
www.therfl.co.uk/news/article/29 ... nd-academy
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| Quote ="deslawson"The 2 PNG players will be playing for gateshead not rovers.Seems strange rovers joining forces with gateshead
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You're right Des. It does seem strange. I thought Gateshead would have set their sights much higher.
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| Quote ="Hessle Roader"You're right Des. It does seem strange. I thought Gateshead would have set their sights much higher.'"
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| Quote ="Hessle Roader"You're right Des. It does seem strange. I thought Gateshead would have set their sights much higher.'"
Gateshead Thunder Robins just doesn't have the same ring to it
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| Quote ="Sandra The Terrorist"I have a vision of Mike in a thirteen year old BMW 7 series full of empty bottles of Dr. Pepper, packets of Lambert and Butler and Frazzles.
Both of the them singing along to Johnny Cash and Mike getting his card declined at the motorway services.'"
Excellent imagery, my friend, but imagine the smell. Heater stuck on full so nylon anorak perspiration, cigs, turkey curry and Frazzle farts catalysed by carbonated beverage with a top note of stale Insignia (from Xmas box set, matching deodorant and aftershave "for one all-over smell"icon_wink.gif
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| Quote ="Mrs Barista"I'm not that upbeat about the season coming, but merely clarifying that any suggestion[u right now[/u that bragging rights are anything other than west of the river is pure delusion. 2014 will be totally different, Mike Smith has pledged that himself, that's good enough for me.
RBA said that Heil would be an imminent Challenge Cup winner I remember, but his form in the overstatement of Rovers potential in the academy arena is world class.'"
Your bragging rights are slightly skewed, rovers academy is the only one to produce a gf winner in the last 7 years, little consolation to us tho..
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| Quote ="barham red"Your bragging rights are slightly skewed, rovers academy is the only one to produce a gf winner in the last 7 years, little consolation to us tho..'"
Ah, the golden era of Morgan, his 4th place finish and ownership of FC in derbies. How you must miss him.
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| Quote ="Mrs Barista"Ah, the golden era of Morgan, his 4th place finish and ownership of FC in derbies. How you must miss him.'"
Not really, still won sod all. Standard of rugby in hull is e and dont see it changing soon. Any player with ambition will move west.
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| Quote ="barham red"Not really, still won sod all. Standard of rugby in hull is poop and dont see it changing soon. Any player with ambition will move west.'"
2014 is Rovers' year. Do keep up, you miserable so-and-so.
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Quote ="Dave K."This only been in SL for 7 years from Rovers fans is getting old, how many more years are they going to pedal this out. They will never improve if they keep signing players Like the PNG players in positions they have young players.
One area that gas been vastly neglected by NH, no coincidence that Rovers and Salford are the only 2 teams in SL not to have one player in any of the England academy squads, even Cumbria academy and north east academy who neither are in SL have any players in it.
www.therfl.co.uk/news/article/29 ... nd-academy'"
Lets not forget that in 2007 when they came up all clubs were equal with the salary cap unlike when we came up!
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Quote ="Dave K."This only been in SL for 7 years from Rovers fans is getting old, how many more years are they going to pedal this out. They will never improve if they keep signing players Like the PNG players in positions they have young players.
One area that gas been vastly neglected by NH, no coincidence that Rovers and Salford are the only 2 teams in SL not to have one player in any of the England academy squads, even Cumbria academy and north east academy who neither are in SL have any players in it.
www.therfl.co.uk/news/article/29 ... nd-academy'"
Lets not forget that in 2007 when they came up all clubs were equal with the salary cap unlike when we came up!
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| Quote ="Mrs Barista"Excellent imagery, my friend, but imagine the smell. Heater stuck on full so nylon anorak perspiration, cigs, turkey curry and Frazzle farts catalysed by carbonated beverage with a top note of stale Insignia (from Xmas box set, matching deodorant and aftershave "for one all-over smell"icon_wink.gif
'"
That's one of those "can't be unseen" posts
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Quote ="Dave K."This only been in SL for 7 years from Rovers fans is getting old, how many more years are they going to pedal this out. They will never improve if they keep signing players Like the PNG players in positions they have young players.
One area that gas been vastly neglected by NH, no coincidence that Rovers and Salford are the only 2 teams in SL not to have one player in any of the England academy squads, even Cumbria academy and north east academy who neither are in SL have any players in it.
www.therfl.co.uk/news/article/29 ... nd-academy'"
We shouldn't pedal it out. In part, because the farce of licensing means there is no need for a moral justification, and as a political ploy, we're better focussing on the positives, even if they're a tiny bit on the meagre side.
If we're looking at just the SL-era development pathway, as a start-from-scratch launch pad, I accept that the likes of Welham, Mariano and Beaumont can't be used in evidence for the defence. Players now 24 and under, who started to make an impact ~2010 and later (it was always going to take 2 or 3 years), would seem a reasonable sample. Those that have played more than a couple of games - Watts, Taylor, Sam Latus, Cox, Salter. To a lesser degree Sheriff, Peterson, James Green and Ollet. A trickle over 4 seasons, frankly, and we've not retained most of them, their career trajectories taking them in different directions.
The RFL has effectively moved from being scrutineer to scrutinised, so other than as political bargaining chips, I see no great value in their assessments at the moment. But it is obvious that we won't improve without a better pipeline of talent (and the ability to retain a good proportion of the best of them, which creates a tension where resources are limited). The last couple of years hasn't given us the number of homegrown SL-quality players we'd hope to see emerging. But failures yield lessons - you try to learn them, adjust and roll out phrases like 'moving forward'.
I've noticed over about 3 or 4 years that we don't get any players in the youth age-group teams. Our junior teams seem to be middling rather than abysmal in terms of their results, so while I wouldn't expect many, our consistent failure to get any in has struck me as a bit odd. My concern is that it has become a self-fulfilling cycle - players realise they're more likely to get recognition elsewhere, so that's where the best go. We need to up our game significantly, and I'd include cultivating relationships with the people who pick these squads, as one priority. Which is cynical and probably paranoid, but harmless at worst.
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Quote ="Dave K."This only been in SL for 7 years from Rovers fans is getting old, how many more years are they going to pedal this out. They will never improve if they keep signing players Like the PNG players in positions they have young players.
One area that gas been vastly neglected by NH, no coincidence that Rovers and Salford are the only 2 teams in SL not to have one player in any of the England academy squads, even Cumbria academy and north east academy who neither are in SL have any players in it.
www.therfl.co.uk/news/article/29 ... nd-academy'"
We shouldn't pedal it out. In part, because the farce of licensing means there is no need for a moral justification, and as a political ploy, we're better focussing on the positives, even if they're a tiny bit on the meagre side.
If we're looking at just the SL-era development pathway, as a start-from-scratch launch pad, I accept that the likes of Welham, Mariano and Beaumont can't be used in evidence for the defence. Players now 24 and under, who started to make an impact ~2010 and later (it was always going to take 2 or 3 years), would seem a reasonable sample. Those that have played more than a couple of games - Watts, Taylor, Sam Latus, Cox, Salter. To a lesser degree Sheriff, Peterson, James Green and Ollet. A trickle over 4 seasons, frankly, and we've not retained most of them, their career trajectories taking them in different directions.
The RFL has effectively moved from being scrutineer to scrutinised, so other than as political bargaining chips, I see no great value in their assessments at the moment. But it is obvious that we won't improve without a better pipeline of talent (and the ability to retain a good proportion of the best of them, which creates a tension where resources are limited). The last couple of years hasn't given us the number of homegrown SL-quality players we'd hope to see emerging. But failures yield lessons - you try to learn them, adjust and roll out phrases like 'moving forward'.
I've noticed over about 3 or 4 years that we don't get any players in the youth age-group teams. Our junior teams seem to be middling rather than abysmal in terms of their results, so while I wouldn't expect many, our consistent failure to get any in has struck me as a bit odd. My concern is that it has become a self-fulfilling cycle - players realise they're more likely to get recognition elsewhere, so that's where the best go. We need to up our game significantly, and I'd include cultivating relationships with the people who pick these squads, as one priority. Which is cynical and probably paranoid, but harmless at worst.
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| had the makings of a good thread this one, until about the time deslawson stepped in - oh well
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| On youth development the scrapping of the A teams was wrong in my opinion it served a number of purposes
1) To help a player who has been injured to get some game time before re- introduction into first team.
2) Helped develop young kids after the age of nineteen who develop at a later stage.
3) Allows promising young kids to learn the game before being thrown in at the deep end.
Once a kid gets past nineteen and has not made it into the first team then they are lost to the game.
It is not possible to have a team full of local lads and expect them to be winning cups if you base the latter on success.
What has been disappointing for me is that the local lads that have made it to first team have not stayed with for one reason or another ,when offers come in for these kids regardless of what team then the club should be able to retain these kids.
We should be asking in Hull why we cannot develop a 6 or 7 and gave to rely on imports.
As for the RFL any outfit that cannot attract a major sponsor and gives away the product for free should be held accountable for their actions and possibly be given a vote of no confidence.
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| Quote ="Mrs Barista"Yeah, but they made a fortune charging £5 to watch him train. At least 4 people turned up.
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Plus 5000 cardboard cut outs!
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| Quote ="cofr_rockin_robin"On youth development the scrapping of the A teams was wrong in my opinion it served a number of purposes
1) To help a player who has been injured to get some game time before re- introduction into first team.
2) Helped develop young kids after the age of nineteen who develop at a later stage.
3) Allows promising young kids to learn the game before being thrown in at the deep end.
Once a kid gets past nineteen and has not made it into the first team then they are lost to the game.
It is not possible to have a team full of local lads and expect them to be winning cups if you base the latter on success.
What has been disappointing for me is that the local lads that have made it to first team have not stayed with for one reason or another ,when offers come in for these kids regardless of what team then the club should be able to retain these kids.
We should be asking in Hull why we cannot develop a 6 or 7 and gave to rely on imports.
As for the RFL any outfit that cannot attract a major sponsor and gives away the product for free should be held accountable for their actions and possibly be given a vote of no confidence.'"
Agree on the A team 100%.
ps you forget Tommy Lee
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| Quote ="hull smallears"Agree on the A team 100%.
ps you forget Tommy Lee
'"
Ah Tommy 'I Speak about myself in the third person' Lee.
Apart from Horne and Cooke, I can't remember the last one from Hull. I think Rovers last decent one (played in top division) was Wayne Parker iirc.
Lets hope this Tyson-Wilson kid is as good as people are making out.
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| This post is supposed to be about the state of the game imo hudge has brought the state of the game to the fore, its not about who has made the worst signing or who has lost the most money. If you listen to most rl chairman the benchmark loss is 500 k per season so all teams lose roughly the same amount and this obviously can't go on. The rl need to up their game get sponsors and stop favouring the so called top four and letting them use next years and the years after that salary cap to get in top players i.e. Warrington in the last few seasons, this is short sighted and only makes the other clubs copy them because if they don't they cannot compete wasn't the salary cap brought in to stop the so called top four dominating the game, I can see the current sl in years to come reverting to semi pro because of no money.
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| But surely as a chairman directly involved in setting a "benchmark" loss of £500K, Hudgell is part of the problem and not the solution?
Is he hoping somehow that people don't notice this huge inconsistency and therefore why should we take his self serving views seriously?
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| Quote ="Erik the not red"why should we take his self serving views seriously?'"
Well, without him and the other club owners who fund the losses, we wouldn't have full time professional top flight RL in this country. At least not on a sensible or meaningful scale. They're among the most crucial stakeholders in the sport. They have a variety of views and Hudgell's is just one among them. He's arguably been vindicated over the newco-end of licensing thing. Though his assumption that letting/making them start again at the bottom would have meant fewer rather than just different SL teams wasn't a given.
And the Stobart thing he and Pearson and others were against, also turned out badly.
Identifying problems is easier than finding solutions though. Increasing revenue would be lovely but is no doubt difficult. Dividing the pie between fewer mouths is easier, but comes at an obvious cost.
And if Hudgell or Pearson are being self serving in their similar views, then I hope that they recognise that a major and inevitable structural problem will always exist - the willingness of other clubs to spend the extra income in the pursuit of success. Hudgell has expressed a preference for 10 teams in SL. If they got all the Sky money, Rovers would be not far off breakeven in theory - assuming they made the cut. But Leeds, Wigan and other cashed-up clubs would soon start pushing for an increase in the cap (which is long overdue really), and in a smaller league they'd have more democratic clout.
It isn't just about how much money there is in the sport, it's also how evenly spread it is. Smaller and even mid-sized clubs without benefactors will always struggle, on every level, against big clubs or big benefactors. Locking out benefactors locks out vital cash. Smaller, less successful clubs will struggle to grow and (understandably) there's huge resistance to mergers. Breaking up big clubs would be ridiculous. So we're stuck really.
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