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| Quote ="ccs"That's illegal. Evans playing football again isn't illegal.'" Rape is Illegal |
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| Quote ="cod'ead"What "evidence" has Bruce or you looked at then?
Did you both attend the whole trial and listen to every word of testimony or have you read a complete transcript of the case?
The appeal judge at least read the grounds for appeal and when compared to the trial transcript, decided not to allow the appeal. A decision that was then confirmed by a panel of threee appeal court judges.
Much of the game of professional soccer is still steeped in misogyny, it's high time they dragged themselves into the 21st century'"
Have you actually looked at what is open to the public or not? I'm guessing not then because you're clearly a another know nowt sheep.
If you have are you able to make a considered decision (of your own volition) regarding the case and the actual evidence?
If you think the case against Evans is clear cut & he's a rapist, that's fine, the system and 12 people found him guilty, I on the other hand can 'see' what was right in front of everyone (though some was excluded from the original trial due to incompetence). In my opinion and that of many thousands of other normal thinking people can see that the 'evidence' shows that the whole thing is a miscarriage of justice..
That Steve Bruce has his own opinion and thinks the same is his right, just as it is your right to have yours, it's the right to have that opinion that seems to be open for debate, people like you & Sir Stan seemingly only want to allow others to have one if it fits in with what you agree with..same as the rugby discussions tbh.. |
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| Quote ="knockersbumpMKII"Have you actually looked at what is open to the public or not? I'm guessing not then because you're clearly a another know nowt sheep.
If you have are you able to make a considered decision (of your own volition) regarding the case and the actual evidence?
If you think the case against Evans is clear cut & he's a rapist, that's fine, the system and 12 people found him guilty, I on the other hand can 'see' what was right in front of everyone (though some was excluded from the original trial due to incompetence). In my opinion and that of many thousands of other normal thinking people can see that the 'evidence' shows that the whole thing is a miscarriage of justice..
That Steve Bruce has his own opinion and thinks the same is his right, just as it is your right to have yours, it's the right to have that opinion that seems to be open for debate, people like you & Sir Stan seemingly only want to allow others to have one if it fits in with what you agree with..same as the rugby discussions tbh..'" Explain to me and thousands of others please |
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I think Bruce is entitled to his opinion and those that have actually read up on this case will certainly have some questions surrounding the case against Ched Evans.
The woman in question has apparently made a previous rape allegation that was proved to be false. She'd also tweeted before the trial that when she wins she wins big and that she will treat her and a friend to pink mini's and a holiday, She was also apparently too intoxicated to consent yet she managed to carry a pizza whilst opening double doors all in high heels. We also have two parties who had sex with the woman that night in that hotel room. One got a not guilty one a guilty. If she is too intoxicated to agree to sleep with one male then surely she's too intoxicated to sleep with both?
She was also found to be lying under oath on toxicology reports that showed that she was a habitual user of Cannabis and cocaine.
Plenty of unanswered questions.
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| Quote ="Basher"Explain to me and thousands of others please'"
 why should I, because you can't be arrised to go and look/access public records and form your own opinion, I guess you're another sheeple right?
It's Bruce's opinion I'm defending, my own personal opinion is that I think Evans has being stitched up..
Why don't you have a look at the evidence then come back and give YOUR opinion... |
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| Quote ="Easty"I think Bruce is entitled to his opinion and those that have actually read up on this case will certainly have some questions surrounding the case against Ched Evans.
The woman in question has apparently made a previous rape allegation that was proved to be false. She'd also tweeted before the trial that when she wins she wins big and that she will treat her and a friend to pink mini's and a holiday, She was also apparently too intoxicated to consent yet she managed to carry a pizza whilst opening double doors all in high heels. We also have two parties who had sex with the woman that night in that hotel room. One got a not guilty one a guilty. If she is too intoxicated to agree to sleep with one male then surely she's too intoxicated to sleep with both?'" Did the first guy say anything about whether there was an odd bottle. Who dobbed the good boy Ched in cos it was not the girl cos she was drunk, You males can try as much as you can but it was RAPE under English law. Get over it and let the scrote get on his life he is not the greatest Footballer in the world. 1st division of English Football give me a break. |
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| Quote ="Basher"Did the first guy say anything about whether there was an odd bottle. Who dobbed the good boy Ched in cos it was not the girl cos she was drunk, You males can try as much as you can but it was RAPE under English law. Get over it and let the scrote get on his life he is not the greatest Footballer in the world. 1st division of English Football give me a break.'"
Apparently nobody made an allegation of rape.
This was taken of the website mentioned earlier.
Quote Q6. If the complainant made no allegation of rape or indeed any sexual activity, why did the North Wales police launch a rape investigation?
A. The complainant initially reported to the police that she believed ‘her drink had been spiked’. It was only after informing the police that the complainant had stayed in a room in the Premier Inn that had been booked for two footballers, that the police escalated the enquiry to a rape enquiry. This was only 14 minutes after taking the call and without interviewing either the complainant or the suspects.
Toxicology reports proved that there was no trace of any date rape drug in her system only traces of cannabis and cocaine.
Q7. If there was no forensic evidence on the complainant or in the room and no complaint, how did both Clayton and Ched get charged with rape by the North Wales police?
A. When interviewed separately both Clayton and Ched acknowledged consensual sexual activity with the complainant – they told the truth. If they had
refused to comply and ‘no commented’ the questions, they could not have been charged. Their honesty incriminated them.'" |
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| Quote ="Easty"Apparently nobody made an allegation of rape.
This was taken of the website mentioned earlier.
'" So 12 men a true find him guilty . We are ed as a nation over one Lower Rank Footballer. I worry #charlie |
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| Quote ="*1865*"I don't paticularly care whether he's guilty or not, any person should be allowed to continue their career once they've served their sentence. The fact he's a footballer shouldn't come in to the equation.
However I do find it bizarre that, given the girls story they could find one party guilty and the other not guilty.'"
No one is preventing him continuing his career. No one apart from Ched Evans and his knuckle-dragging apologists that is.
It has taken him until today to show even a shred of contrition and that was issued begrudgingly. He hasn't asked for the support website to be taken down and his happy to sit back and allow his "supporters" to continue to vilify the REAL victim in this case. In case it passed you by, that victim IS NOT Ched Evans.
My advice to him would be to consider a career away from football. Can you imagine the reception he will receive from opposition supporters? I just hope that he is also receiving professional counselling.
He could always ply his trade abroad, were it not for the fact that as he still hasn't served his whole sentence, he is not allowed to travel abroad. He hasn't "done his time", he's only done half of it. |
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City are in danger of breaching the fair play cap. Budget isn't the word. Ched's about all they can afford, I reckon.
Plus his girlfriend Natasha is a good friend of Amy Bruce, of course, according to social media.
Evans Stevens. Unwelcome to Hull, munChed.
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Don't agree with what he's said but I'd die fighting for his right to say it.
JE SUIS CHARLIE.
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| Quote ="Mike1970"1885, does that mean if your children went to a nursery and one of the staff got convicted of being a paedophile you'd be happy for them to resume looking after your children once they'd served their sentance?'"
This is where people are getting mixed up. A profession in which you hold a position of trust (doctor, nurse, teacher) is not comparible to being a footballer.
All the witch hunt mob will do is turn Evans in to the victim. There are people playing football that have killed before, where's the outcry about them? Ones even captaining his club. |
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| Quote ="cod'ead"No one is preventing him continuing his career. No one apart from Ched Evans and his knuckle-dragging apologists that is.
It has taken him until today to show even a shred of contrition and that was issued begrudgingly. He hasn't asked for the support website to be taken down and his happy to sit back and allow his "supporters" to continue to vilify the REAL victim in this case. In case it passed you by, that victim IS NOT Ched Evans.
My advice to him would be to consider a career away from football. Can you imagine the reception he will receive from opposition supporters? I just hope that he is also receiving professional counselling.
He could always ply his trade abroad, were it not for the fact that as he still hasn't served his whole sentence, he is not allowed to travel abroad. He hasn't "done his time", he's only done half of it.'"
He was given legal advice to not speak. Why should he apologise for something he's adamant he hasn't done, would you?
He has completely distanced himself from those that have vilified the girl and apologised for the hurt caused by events that night.
He has a right, as does every other person to rehabilitation. Part of that is being allowed to resume his career. Making rehabilitation conditional is not a path we should go down, under any circumstances.
As I said, his guilt is not the issue for me, the very laws that convicted him also say he has a right to be rehabilitated. |
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Listening to bruces' comments I wonder if he had watched question time on Thursday night as one of the panelists made virtually the same comments
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...or maybe he reads [url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11226209/Ched-Evans-Sorry-but-all-rapes-are-not-the-same.htmlThe Telegraph.[/url
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1865, please stop trying to be inflammatory. I was only responding to your sweeping statement that anyone has the right to resume their career.
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| Quote ="Basher"So 12 men a true find him guilty . We are loved as a nation over one Lower Rank Footballer. I worry #charlie'"
Have you read the transcripts yet then sheeple???? Or are you going to come out with an educated opinion or just carry on talking b0llocks??? |
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| Quote ="Mike1970"1865, please stop trying to be inflammatory. I was only responding to your sweeping statement that anyone has the right to resume their career.'"
Rehabilitation is a right. Showing you the flaws in your argument is not inflammatory. |
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Rehabilitation isn't a right. It's a courtesy given by a civilised society. Expecting to be defended against a dangerous convicted criminal is a right.
I didn't propose an argument, I questioned your statement. There is a difference. If your comprehension skills cannot recognise that, then that is not my problem. You made a statement, I questioned it, which you've still not answered. Do I need to copy and paste it as a quote?
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| Quote ="Mike1970"Rehabilitation isn't a right. It's a courtesy given by a civilised society. Expecting to be defended against a dangerous convicted criminal is a right.
I didn't propose an argument, I questioned your statement. There is a difference. If your comprehension skills cannot recognise that, then that is not my problem. You made a statement, I questioned it, which you've still not answered. Do I need to copy and paste it as a quote?'"
You never questioned my statement, you proposed a situation which you know could never happen and tried to compare it to the Ched Evans situation, just because I didn't make clear that he has a right to resume his career because he's not barred from his profession like a teacher, nurse etc. would be. Although I must admit, I did assume most rational people would be intelligent enough to make that distinction. In your case, I won't make that error again. |
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Firstly I think Steve Bruce's comments are said with good intentions because of the media attention against Evans but ill advised because as previous contributors have said would he be prepared to sign him if he was good enough. There would be a massive out cry against I am fairly sure.
As regards the conviction. I agree with others that it is difficult to understand, after reading the evidence in a previous post, why one was convicted and the other not.
Should he be allowed to play football again? Yes. Why? Because as it has been pointed by others there are players who have committed crimes and have been to prison and are now playing or have played after serving their time. He has served his. However what club in their right mind would sign him and risk the backlash of the supporters and probably loss of income to the club, after all the media attention and the nature of the crime?
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| Quote ="*1865*"Rehabilitation is a right. Showing you the flaws in your argument is not inflammatory.'"
Rehabilitation is NOT a right. It is a choice made by the offender.
In the full sense of the word rehabilitation can only be achieved by the offender taking full responsibility for their crime and demonstrating their contrition by word as well as deed. Rehabilitation is not 'ours to give'.
There are very few professions that would welcome a convicted rapist returning to their previous career path full stop and even fewer that would do so without the offender having shown any remorse or made any apology to their victim. Soccer stars are are idolised by many and, given Evans' attitude, it would send entirely the wrong message to the youth of today for this convicted rapist to be welcomed back into the fold as if he is blameless.
Regardless of individuals' opinions regarding the rights and wrongs of this case, he remains a convicted rapist whose appeal was thrown out. If/until that status changes that is how he must be judged. As he believes he is innocent, and has shown no contrition, nor made no apology to his victim, how can he undertake his rehabilitation? He doesn't admit there is a crime for him to undertake rehabilitation from. |
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| Quote ="WormInHand"Rehabilitation is NOT a right. It is a choice made by the offender.'"
Every person who meets the criteria has a right to undergo rehabilitation, so yes, it's his choice to make but having made that choice it is no less his right
Quote ="WormInHand"In the full sense of the word rehabilitation can only be achieved by the offender taking full responsibility for their crime and demonstrating their contrition by word as well as deed. Rehabilitation is not 'ours to give'.'"
That's a romantic idea, but it's not how the law sees it at all.
Quote ="WormInHand"There are very few professions that would welcome a convicted rapist returning to their previous career path full stop and even fewer that would do so without the offender having shown any remorse or made any apology to their victim. Soccer stars are are idolised by many and, given Evans' attitude, it would send entirely the wrong message to the youth of today for this convicted rapist to be welcomed back into the fold as if he is blameless.'"
Again, why should he apologise for something he knows he hasn't done?
Also, football is littered with convicted criminals, as is rugby. Some have even killed and been accepted back into the game.
Quote ="WormInHand"Regardless of individuals' opinions regarding the rights and wrongs of this case, he remains a convicted rapist whose appeal was thrown out. If/until that status changes that is how he must be judged. As he believes he is innocent, and has shown no contrition, nor made no apology to his victim, how can he undertake his rehabilitation? He doesn't admit there is a crime for him to undertake rehabilitation from.'"
Again, under the law he doesn't have to. You could even argue that because he knows he didn't commit a crime, why does he have to be rehabilitated at all? |
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| Quote ="*1865*"Every person who meets the criteria has a right to undergo rehabilitation, so yes, it's his choice to make but having made that choice it is no less his right'"
Ah - you're talking about the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act. I didn't realise, as Evans [idoesn't[/i meet the criteria. His conviction was for five years, so will never be spent. I was talking about the literal meaning of rehabilitation, which means the willingness, ability and activity of a person following a trauma to reintegrate themselves back into society. In the case of a criminal, to atone for that crime and demonstrate remorse.
Quote ="*1865*"That's a romantic idea, but it's not how the law sees it at all. '"
Romantic? I'd offer literal, the Act not being applicable in this case.
Quote ="*1865*"Again, why should he apologise for something he knows he hasn't done?
Also, football is littered with convicted criminals, as is rugby. Some have even killed and been accepted back into the game.'"
He [iknows[/i he hasn't done? The jury who passed verdict, and the judges who rejected his appeal don't agree with his [iopinion[/i. I'm not commenting on whether he should be eligible for another role in soccer or anywhere else. That decision is down to the prospective employer, not I, you or he.
Quote ="*1865*"Again, under the law he doesn't have to.'"
I don't know what you mean by this. Under law, he doesn't have to what?
Quote ="*1865*"You could even argue that because he knows he didn't commit a crime, why does he have to be rehabilitated at all?'"
By maintaining his innocence he clearly does not believe he has anything to rehabilitate himself from, agreed. However, society and the law disagree, again, with his opinion. He remains a convicted rapist at the current time. Incidentally, still with more than two years of his sentence to serve. He is currently out on licence only. |
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Quote ="knockersbumpMKII"Have you read the transcripts yet then sheeple???? Or are you going to come out with an educated opinion or just carry on talking b0llocks???'"
https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-che ... dwyn-evans
I've read this. I have also I'd imagine sat through more court cases than you. (But that's just an educated guess).
Bottom line is 12 men & women sat and listened to ALL the evidence. Having done that they decided that the man who sneaked into the hotel room and decided to take advantage of a clearly (going by the experts opinion here) drunk woman was guilty of rape. That is British justice system working. It's far from perfect. But it's far far better than most systems in the world.
That makes Mr Evans a convicted rapist.
Now he has not served his time. He has served half and has been allowed to serve the remaining part in the community. It's now I struggle with the what job he can and can't do. Certain jobs, police, teacher, health worker, etc have it written in contract / law that you can't go back once convicted. Football isn't one of them. Oldham Athletic well know this. Lee Hughes killer of a person. Served his prison time and played for them.
What crimes can or can't you go back to playing football again after committing?
Now the PFA need to assess this and lets it's members know and quickly.
Sport is littered with convicts. Mike Tyson anyone? Phil the Power Taylor? Where is the line drawn? Is it only team sports? Is it only football? That's the debate we should be having.
Also the other consideration is the victim. I doubt anyone from either side has stopped to think of her through the past few weeks that Mr Evans has been on e front pages. |
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Quote ="knockersbumpMKII"Have you read the transcripts yet then sheeple???? Or are you going to come out with an educated opinion or just carry on talking b0llocks???'"
https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-che ... dwyn-evans
I've read this. I have also I'd imagine sat through more court cases than you. (But that's just an educated guess).
Bottom line is 12 men & women sat and listened to ALL the evidence. Having done that they decided that the man who sneaked into the hotel room and decided to take advantage of a clearly (going by the experts opinion here) drunk woman was guilty of rape. That is British justice system working. It's far from perfect. But it's far far better than most systems in the world.
That makes Mr Evans a convicted rapist.
Now he has not served his time. He has served half and has been allowed to serve the remaining part in the community. It's now I struggle with the what job he can and can't do. Certain jobs, police, teacher, health worker, etc have it written in contract / law that you can't go back once convicted. Football isn't one of them. Oldham Athletic well know this. Lee Hughes killer of a person. Served his prison time and played for them.
What crimes can or can't you go back to playing football again after committing?
Now the PFA need to assess this and lets it's members know and quickly.
Sport is littered with convicts. Mike Tyson anyone? Phil the Power Taylor? Where is the line drawn? Is it only team sports? Is it only football? That's the debate we should be having.
Also the other consideration is the victim. I doubt anyone from either side has stopped to think of her through the past few weeks that Mr Evans has been on e front pages. | |
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why should I, because you can't be arrised to go and look/access public records and form your own opinion, I guess you're another sheeple right?
