i wasnt comparing just saying the games gone from loose man been a ball player to been an extra prop like gallen as for a few seasons now SL is adapting to it, so for westerman who as been like an extra halfback most of his career it must be difficult.

While Westy does top our Error and Penalty counts, he's given away just 3 more penalties than Rich Whiting. Would you like him to 'do one' as well?

By the way, Westy is also second to Houghton for number of tackles, third for number of marker tackles, 4th for tackle busts, third for carries. So he does a hell of a lot of work.

Read my last few posts and you'll know what I think about the stats, prove nothing, and yes I like whiting for his versatility, but I would't loose any sleep, he very rarely starts a game if we are at full strength, and that's happened for seasons, so the past coaches have obviously not rated him as highly as some on here, I think the penalties he gives away are less noticeable then westermans, not as stupid or at times when where struggling so takes on for the team, I'd certainly put him in the side before westerman, if westerman was a young Aussie signed for a fee and with potentional, he'd of been hammered on here, it's only my opinion anyway, I've friends that disagree with me, but I think we'd be a better team without him, no doubt somebodies got the stats for how we have done when he ain't played

I've pointed this out before, but people don't seem to want to accept it or they find excuses for some reason.

And you can also factor in that Westerman tends to play more minutes, has played a game more, and has been in the pack almost every game, where Whiting has had some time in the backs again.

Some of our players' penalty records are really hindered by the fact that we don't keep the ball enough ourselves. If we could actually attack I reckon you'd see a 10-20% drop for some of them.

I'd stay with Ellis , With a good off season ,Hopefully we'll see a lot more from him .

Ellis. Westerman when Ellis has gone.

Don't agree with the "Really long sentences, using commas instead of full stops" poster that Westerman is "useless", (Why do people seem to go to extremes with opinions?) however I do think he is overrated by some. Just my opinion. I also agree that statistics alone only paint a part picture.

I wouldn't question Westermans work effort and ability but like a few others in our squad he suffers from too many brain farts, too often to make him a captain, imo.

Given we have recently brought in players and made them captain perhaps that is what we will see again happen when Ellis leaves. In terms of the OP's question about next season, Ellis being captain in a no-brainer imo.

Nice one, sorry I mean . I'm sure you understood the messages, I'll try to take my time when posting future, and maybe do it from my computer, rather than phone. #bellend.

Top tip. Your not on Twitter.

I like whiting because he's black n white and gives you his all BUT being honest he wouldn't get in a top 3 side imo.

As for Westy I think he's a very good player and like Briscoe if he was to move to a side like Wigan or wire he would top class , again only my opinion

Totally disagree would get into ever side in SL.

Better than players like Kirke, Tuson, Ferguson, Harrison who all start for top sides.

Maybe not on the 13, but woud play off the bench.

Whoever is captain lets just hope they do a better job than the coach did when he was captain for us.

Whiting for me starting at loose forward.

No brainer, stick with Ellis.

Would like to see Westy as VC, think he would respond well to the extra responsibility.

I'd be equally happy with Ellis or Whiting. Absolutely anyone other than Westerman, shown absolutely nothing to suggest he'd make a decent captain. Not vocal, poor under pressure and allegedly doesn't set a great example off the pitch. Agree that he's not as good, or as bad as some posters make out though.

The rest might well be your opinion and fair enough, but the highlighted part is just factually incorrect. Many times he's one of the most vocal players we have after conceding a try.

Agreed, Westerman isn't everyone's cup of tea, but to suggest he isn't vocal enough is laughable.

Correct.

Think they'll stick with Ellis. The best captain IMO for many reasons is Sinfield. His presence for the full 80 is a factor, I think that should be considered.

Dont think Ellis will be stripped of it tbf he is a natural leader maybe Westy will fill the role in a few seasons but not whilst leaders with Ellis experience are at the club.

I'm actually surprised this thread has been started, they won't replace Ellis as captain for next season.

Correctomundo.
Played at the highest level.
Our best and most experienced player by two country miles.

Thats just him appologising for his mistake in the build up to the try

Any votes for Lineham?

Tom Briscoe told AP he would have stayed with us and not gone to Leeds if he'd have been guaranteed the 2014 captaincey.