The quota and salary cap are anti competition, neither would stand up in court if challenged, it's a spit and handshake agreement that clubs can pretty do what they please about. I hope Mason goes well for Rovers, he'll be earning a lot of cash, cause ructions in the dressing room and be targetted by every forward in the game, couldn't happen to a better club!

So in summary:
Rovers fecked up with Galea but had to bring Mason in to avoid looking utter @rses. They knew that, despite the agreement in Perpignan 2007 where all club chairmen, including Hudgell, signed up to a an agreement to actively close loopholes on overseas players, this quota arrangement was legally speaking unenforceable. Rovers have acted directly in contravention of the spirit of the agreement and exposed the quota rules, which were embraced to varying degrees by clubs, and ultimately the RFL, to public and high profile ridicule, purely to retain Galea for one more season. Bet Red Hall are made up. Hope Rule has something to say about this given our current position of 2 quota players. Utter farce.

Yawwwwwwwn. Broken record, Wigan have 8 overseas players, yet they are only allowed 5 too. Go figure....

So basically, Sheldon was right. Hudgell's basically said "try and stop me and I'll see you in court".

If you don't understand, you only have to ask.

This does appear the case and if so really worries me about the people running clubs, Rather then be open and above board and say well we arn't going to follow the rules, They tell everyone they will and then do it behind everyones back.

That's not actually true. The RFL can make up pretty much whatever rules they want for as SL is a private competition and all clubs agree to the rules when they enter. The quota is the more difficult of the two to implement without falling foul of employment law, but the current rules are (or at least were!) within the law.

That's a pretty large leap. The RFL actually has a rule which states that any club in legal dispute with it is automatically suspended from all RFL sanctioned competitions for the duration of the case, plus a legal challenge would likely fail at the point where it was explained to the court that the club had agreed to the rules it was now trying to challenge.

More likely this was a loophole that the RFL either failed to notice or knew about and hoped nobody else would notice.

In any case, I assume that we will now be asking the RFL to make our two Tongans Fed Trained immediately so that we have two additional overseas spaces available. I've previously been dead against too many OS players at the club but if the RFL can't be d then neither can I.

Quote ="east hull FC fan"If you don't understand, you only have to ask.'" Understand what? What NONE of us truly understand is the "overseas quota" and how some players are exempt from it. What I do understand is that a) Mason is on his way, b) I think you lot are gutted that he is on his way, and c) You're thinking of every excuse under the sun as to why he will fail and cause unrest at Rovers. For what its worth, I just found this: www.wiganwarriorsfans.com/wigan/ ... c&o=584195 Its an explanation of quota rules.

Quote ="east hull FC fan"If you don't understand, you only have to ask.'" Understand what? What NONE of us truly understand is the "overseas quota" and how some players are exempt from it. What I do understand is that a) Mason is on his way, b) I think you lot are gutted that he is on his way, and c) You're thinking of every excuse under the sun as to why he will fail and cause unrest at Rovers. For what its worth, I just found this: www.wiganwarriorsfans.com/wigan/ ... c&o=584195 Its an explanation of quota rules.

Quote ="Scott_HKR"Understand what? What NONE of us truly understand is the "overseas quota" and how some players are exempt from it. What I do understand is that a) Mason is on his way, b) I think you lot are gutted that he is on his way, and c) You're thinking of every excuse under the sun as to why he will fail and cause unrest at Rovers. For what its worth, I just found this: www.wiganwarriorsfans.com/wigan/ ... c&o=584195 Its an explanation of quota rules.'" So how under them rules is Mason exempt?

Quote ="Scott_HKR"Understand what? What NONE of us truly understand is the "overseas quota" and how some players are exempt from it. What I do understand is that a) Mason is on his way, b) I think you lot are gutted that he is on his way, and c) You're thinking of every excuse under the sun as to why he will fail and cause unrest at Rovers. For what its worth, I just found this: www.wiganwarriorsfans.com/wigan/ ... c&o=584195 Its an explanation of quota rules.'" So how under them rules is Mason exempt?

Quote ="Scott_HKR"Understand what? What NONE of us truly understand is the "overseas quota" and how some players are exempt from it. What I do understand is that a) Mason is on his way, b) I think you lot are gutted that he is on his way, and c) You're thinking of every excuse under the sun as to why he will fail and cause unrest at Rovers. For what its worth, I just found this: www.wiganwarriorsfans.com/wigan/ ... c&o=584195 Its an explanation of quota rules.'" Nothing in those rules explains how Mason (and presumably all Tongan and Samoan nationals) is now considered to be Federation Trained.

Quote ="Scott_HKR"Understand what? What NONE of us truly understand is the "overseas quota" and how some players are exempt from it. What I do understand is that a) Mason is on his way, b) I think you lot are gutted that he is on his way, and c) You're thinking of every excuse under the sun as to why he will fail and cause unrest at Rovers. For what its worth, I just found this: www.wiganwarriorsfans.com/wigan/ ... c&o=584195 Its an explanation of quota rules.'" Nothing in those rules explains how Mason (and presumably all Tongan and Samoan nationals) is now considered to be Federation Trained.

Kinda says it all for me....

Quote ="Scott_HKR"Understand what? What NONE of us truly understand is the "overseas quota" and how some players are exempt from it. What I do understand is that a) Mason is on his way, b) I think you lot are gutted that he is on his way, and c) You're thinking of every excuse under the sun as to why he will fail and cause unrest at Rovers. For what its worth, I just found this: www.wiganwarriorsfans.com/wigan/ ... c&o=584195 Its an explanation of quota rules.'" To be quite honest, I don't give 2 hoots about Mason, he's been past it for 2-3 years now. If you was trying to really improve your squad he wouldn't have got a second look, Clinton is twice the player Mason is now. My gripe was that you tried to justify having 10 non-British players by stating wigan have 8. Wigan have 5 non fed players and 3 using AGREED dispensation.

Quote ="Scott_HKR"Understand what? What NONE of us truly understand is the "overseas quota" and how some players are exempt from it. What I do understand is that a) Mason is on his way, b) I think you lot are gutted that he is on his way, and c) You're thinking of every excuse under the sun as to why he will fail and cause unrest at Rovers. For what its worth, I just found this: www.wiganwarriorsfans.com/wigan/ ... c&o=584195 Its an explanation of quota rules.'" To be quite honest, I don't give 2 hoots about Mason, he's been past it for 2-3 years now. If you was trying to really improve your squad he wouldn't have got a second look, Clinton is twice the player Mason is now. My gripe was that you tried to justify having 10 non-British players by stating wigan have 8. Wigan have 5 non fed players and 3 using AGREED dispensation.

That talks about the quota not non-fed.

We have 5 quota players. End of discussion then is it not?

And for your information mate, Mason and our 300 aussies count as Federation trained, not non-federation.

Quota
Webster
Dobson
Galea
Green
Clinton

Federation
Ben Cockayne
Matt Cook
Craig Hall
Shaun Briscoe
Peter Fox
Ben Fisher - Qualifies due to date joined club, perfectly legal, read the rules
Jason Netherton
Josh Hodgson
Liam Colbon
Scott Wheeldon
Willie Mason - Qualifies due to holding Tongan passport.
Clint Newton - Qualifies due to having English mother, and having English passport.
Michael Vella - Qualifies due to date joined club, perfectly legal, read the rules.

Homegrown - Yes we do have some of these
Kris Welham
Jordan Cox
Liam Watts
Louis Sheriffe
Scott Taylor
Dave Peterson
Rhys Lovegrove - Qualifies as home grown due to age he joined club
Scott Murrell
Sam Latus

It is evident that the RFL allow Tongan etc. players to be counted as Federation trained (as they did PNG players), that is not my fault, that is not Morgan or Hudgell's fault, that is just the way it is.

Anymore questions?

Only for people who don't actually understand the discussion. Or what the Quota is. Or the differences between Quota, Fed Trained, and Non Fed Trained.

That would be you, then.

A couple wrong there nick but nice try.

I understand it, but Mason/Newton are Federation trained due to their passports (RFL sanctioned), Fisher/Vella are Federation due to the rules the RFL put in place about the date the players joined they club, and Lovegrove counts as homegrown due to the age he joined the club (U21).

Then we have our 5 quota players (Galea/Dobbo/Newton/Webster/Green). We have no non-federation players in our squad.

Too true, you should see his words of wisdom on the VT.. apparently our board would never dream of 'operating at full cap' or 'making more than 1 big money signing a season' but apparently Long/Fitzgibbon don't count as big money signings.

So why is Mason federation trained but not Sam Moa?

You bite a bit don't ya lol.



I don't know. Maybe because they can accomodate him without the need to utilise him having a Tongan passport.

Apparently not, as Mason should not qualify as Fed Trained according to the rules you yourself linked to, and Newton is Fed Trained under the same rules as Fisher & Vella.

The point about Mason is that whatever loophole is being used is completely new and not indicated in the rules governing overseas players. It potentially opens up the floodgates for a mass of imported players with Islands passports, and will give clubs extra spaces on their existing rosters as players who were thought to be Non Fed suddenly become Fed Trained. There is also the possibility of fallout from clubs and/or players who were let go or not signed because of a lack of overseas space when in fact there should have been spare slots.

The implications are huge.

If you mean the rules the wigan fan posted on that forum, then Mason fits in with those I think.

It said that players with Kolpak Passports (Samoa, Tonga etc....) are exempt from quota. It then goes on to use Richards, Leuluai and Hansen as examples, so this must mean those three are Fed trained.

I think it would be helpful if the rules were clear for everyone to see.

That scenario requires the RFL to make some illogical decisions.

Assume the fault is all Rovers and Hull KR decide to bully their way out of it. This might work, though it'd be a bit timid of the RFL to accept it (possible admittedly). You'd think they'd at least describe the situation as 'disappointing' and embarras us. They seem happy enough.

More likely the RFL have been kept in the loop and are party to any f-up. This isn't the simplest way out. Give Ben Galea a 'bridging exemption' until his passport comes through rather than letting everybody with Islander heritage become fed-trained - it'd cause a few grumbles, but the rules survive.

The only conclusion I can see is that the RFL have decided that the rules are going to be unworkable/ineffective/irrelevant and were content to accept a [ide facto[/i return to pre-2008 rules. They still have 'club-trained', which is the route football is going down. That'll be easier for them and - if they build on it - possibly more effective.

@Scott HKR...

As the rules [istood[/i, there is no way Mason should qualify as fed-trained whatever passports he hold.

Moa and Lauaki should both now be eligible for fed-trained status.

The 3 Wigan players you mention were already here at the start of the 2008 season. That qualifies them as fed-trained (Hansen would anyway actually), and they have the right passports to get off the old quota.

Mason wasn't here for 2008 so shouldn't qualify as fed-trained - being off the old quota would be irrelevant.